[chaba]

Apart from dismantling 2 injectors on the RH bank I also tried to "force" some diesel through the following parts using a 50 mL syringe with a 0,45 micron filter attached at end (to prevent any dust entering):

1. the pump, by attaching the syringe filter to a short tube and forcing through the output line from the fuel filter (#7 below, going to HP pump) after attaching firmly. Had to push really hard in syringe to get some diesel to flow through and out of the rails, but not so much came out.

2. the LH side fuel rail, by attaching a pipe to the fuel rail input and trying to force diesel through. Could not push through however, because could not get a strong seal of pipe from syringe on rail input. Fuel lines from rail to injectors were not attached.

Could I have damaged any internal valves by forcing diesel through the HP pump with syringe?

 

[chaba]

Just looked at my fuel filter pipes and there seems to be a difference in the position ith respect to pipes # 7 and #2 compared to the workbook picture in last post:
Fuel line #2 should be "fuel supply from fuel tank and under vehicle cooler" and should, according to picture in previous post go where line #7 goes in my picture below.
Have I mixed them up?

 

[PeteA]

Hi Chaba.. don't know if this is of any help?

It does look like they're the wrong way round.. I zip tied mine before filter replacement for permanent identification in future.. i.e. in case I forgot to mark them or take a reference photograph.

 

[chaba]

I swapped the fuel filter lines and also put on the second new fuel filter I had after filling it up with clean diesel from the bottom (before screwing on the sensor). Reinstalled and it started after several goes

Idled very well and I then put up to 2k for a few minutes with heater on full and did not have to put more water in.

One thing I noticed was quite a lot of light smoke/steam coming from the region of the EGR units on each side (under the fuel rails. Not sure if this was from the spilled coolant or there is something not completely sealed here.

I then took it out for a run to make sure heater working well and for sure no problem there. But then, guess what - the dreaded restricted performance came on again once I gently pushed acceleration 😩

Code P0006A again came up but also:
P244A (DPF differential pressure sensor)
P00BF (Mass or Volume Air Flow B Circuit Range/Performance - Air Flow Too High)
P2452 (not clear to me what this is but seems to be related to P244A - page 1767 of workhop manual)

This is really depressing after all the time I have invested but I guess I first need to re-check all the seals around the throttle body area as this was the most tricky, especially the EGR pipes. Perhaps I also need to get a new DPF differential pressure sensor. I remember not being sure if I got the rubber piper for this the wrong way round on the DPF unit metal pipes.

 

[PeteA]

Hi Chaba, glad you got the fuel line issue sorted.. I think we posted at about the same time so you may not have seen my post...

As an aside, does anybody have any idea what the black plastic clip between connectors 2 & 7 in Chaba's photograph and slightly easier to see in mine does or is for?

My only guess is that it was originally to hold the water in fuel filter sensor wires.. but is now redundant though still there?... 🤷‍♂️

 

[chaba]

Hi Chaba, glad you got the fuel line issue sorted.. I think we posted at about the same time so you may not have seen my post...

As an aside, does anybody have any idea what the black plastic clip between connectors 2 & 7 in Chaba's photograph and slightly easier to see in mine does or is for?

My only guess is that it was originally to hold the water in fuel filter sensor wires.. but is now redundant though still there?... 🤷‍♂️

yes, just saw your post - thanks and indeed was the wrong way round. The "in" and "out" arrows on top also helped to convince me that I had them the wrong way round.
I have no idea what purpose the plastic clip serves that attach to pipe connectors 2 and 7 on top of filter. I can imagine that it could be used to help remind the order if only one of the clips is removed and it remains on the other. Didn't really work for me however

 

[cutlea01]

Definitely have the pipes on the fuel filter connected to the correct places?

Edit:
Sorry, I just noticed another page of replies! See you got it sorted

 

[chaba]

Definitely have the pipes on the fuel filter connected to the correct places?

Edit:
Sorry, I just noticed another page of replies! See you got it sorted

Well, I got something sorted in that I now know what I did with the injectors has not messed them up, however I am sort of back to the drawing board in terms of how to fix the RP problem. Not really sure where to start yet...

 

[hamedhbb]

Weather good today so finished up installing everything.

Primed the fuel filter by 4 x 15 sec. on/off without foot on brake.

Then tried (about 10 times!) without success to start the car - not even the faintest indication that it was going to fire up.

I kept the starter motor turning over until it stopped be itself (about 10-15 sec before automatically stops cranking).

No smell of fuel anywhere. I have to now charge the battery as it is too low.

Should I keep trying or does this sound like a more serious problem?

👍🏻 well done Chaba!
This sounds like a boost leakage. Ask someone to rev up the engine while you are hearing noises carefully in the engine bay. Mine was the airbox clip to throttle body. Only when you rev you could hear hissing noise. Also make sure any air pipe clip is torqued to spec. It’s very easy to displace the inlet pipe to first turbo. Also oil separator next to oil filter can pop up easily. Nothing keeps it in place mechanically.

 

[hamedhbb]

yes, just saw your post - thanks and indeed was the wrong way round. The "in" and "out" arrows on top also helped to convince me that I had them the wrong way round.
I have no idea what purpose the plastic clip serves that attach to pipe connectors 2 and 7 on top of filter. I can imagine that it could be used to help remind the order if only one of the clips is removed and it remains on the other. Didn't really work for me however

Fuel resonance issue?!

 

[chaba]

👍🏻 well done Chaba!
This sounds like a boost leakage. Ask someone to rev up the engine while you are hearing noises carefully in the engine bay. Mine was the airbox clip to throttle body. Only when you rev you could hear hissing noise. Also make sure any air pipe clip is torqued to spec. It’s very easy to displace the inlet pipe to first turbo. Also oil separator next to oil filter can pop up easily. Nothing keeps it in place mechanically.

Thanks Hamed, I am indeed relieved that the engine still works!

How accurate are the DTC codes that come up?

I have ordered two new gaskets for attaching the metal EGR pipes to the EGR valve units as well as a new DPF pressure sensor. I got a credit note from the place where I purchased the DPF unit some weeks ago (the one that was for the 2.7 d and did not fit) so used this to buy the sensor.

I will install these parts and recheck everything to try and identify potential leaks.

What air pipe clips are you referring to that should be torqued to spec?

I did not touch the turbos so I cannot imagine their inlet pipes would have come loose. Is that the large orange pipe?

Also, not sure what the oil separator is that you mention can pop up easily. Do you mean where the breather tubes from the manifolds attach?

 

[hamedhbb]

Thanks Hamed, I am indeed relieved that the engine still works!

How accurate are the DTC codes that come up?

I have ordered two new gaskets for attaching the metal EGR pipes to the EGR valve units as well as a new DPF pressure sensor. I got a credit note from the place where I purchased the DPF unit some weeks ago (the one that was for the 2.7 d and did not fit) so used this to buy the sensor.

I will install these parts and recheck everything to try and identify potential leaks.

What air pipe clips are you referring to that should be torqued to spec?

I did not touch the turbos so I cannot imagine their inlet pipes would have come loose. Is that the large orange pipe?

Also, not sure what the oil separator is that you mention can pop up easily. Do you mean where the breather tubes from the manifolds attach?

DTCs are accurate. I guess you have deleted previous DTCs before reading it again right? Because many of them are associated with a boost leak. MAF B is the one on top. Are you sure didn’t swap the connectors? I think the longer one goes to bottom MAF.
At idle MAF B should read almost zero. Becaue you have also range error, it could well be that connectors are swapped. Let’s start from there. Swap the connectors see what happens. Next swap the MAF sensors. They are identical.
Reset CEL and delete errors, then pay attention then CEL pr RP comes on. At idle, just over idle, 2500 to 3000rpm or when engine is under load.

the primary turbo inlet is just under LH egr and a metallic pipe goes from there to oil separator next to oil filter. It has a clip just under LH EGR. If you removed the air box and the ducts that go to LH turbo, the piece that gies to turbo is push fit, there is no faster to keep it. It can easy disconnect. The other clips I mentioned to torque are those after MAF sensors.

P2452 - Diesel Particulate Filter Pressure Sensor A Circuit. This is a sensor sitting on the back of gearbox and has 2 pipes going to dpf. Check connector first, the if the pipes are connected. It is possible to swap them by mistake but one was smaller than the other one I think. It looks like This.

 

[chaba]

DTCs are accurate. I guess you have deleted previous DTCs before reading it again right? Because many of them are associated with a boost leak. MAF B is the one on top. Are you sure didn’t swap the connectors? I think the longer one goes to bottom MAF.

Yes, I cleared previous fault codes before reading again.
Thanks for the info about the MAF sensor connections. Seems like I have problems with inadvertently swapping things around on this car (DPF differential pressure sensor and fuel filter pipes... ) so of course could have swapped them by mistake. I will check.

the primary turbo inlet is just under LH egr and a metallic pipe goes from there to oil separator next to oil filter. It has a clip just under LH EGR. If you removed the air box and the ducts that go to LH turbo, the piece that gies to turbo is push fit, there is no faster to keep it. It can easy disconnect. The other clips I mentioned to torque are those after MAF sensors.

Thanks, will also check these.

P2452 - Diesel Particulate Filter Pressure Sensor A Circuit. This is a sensor sitting on the back of gearbox and has 2 pipes going to dpf. Check connector first, the if the pipes are connected. It is possible to swap them by mistake but one was smaller than the other one I think. It looks like This.

I have ordered a new one so will exchange. I presume the "REF" (reference?) port of the sensor attaches to pipe from behind the DFP and the "HI" port attaches to pipe from before DPF unit (higher pressure). I will check also the state of the rubber tubes and exchange if necessary.

 

[hamedhbb]

Yes, I cleared previous fault codes before reading again.
Thanks for the info about the MAF sensor connections. Seems like I have problems with inadvertently swapping things around on this car (DPF differential pressure sensor and fuel filter pipes... ) so of course could have swapped them by mistake. I will check.



Thanks, will also check these.



I have ordered a new one so will exchange. I presume the "REF" (reference?) port of the sensor attaches to pipe from behind the DFP and the "HI" port attaches to pipe from before DPF unit (higher pressure). I will check also the state of the rubber tubes and exchange if necessary.

There is a small possibility that 2.7 dpf has different pressure drop compared to 3.0 dpf and that makes ECU to thinks something is wrong. However based on the code I guess it’s a connection issue. Best to check against below diagrams:

 

[chaba]

Hamed, quick question regarding the MAF sensors - are they both (upper and lower) identical? Is it only the harness order that is important?

I ask because on page 1533 in the WS manual it states:

"The MAF/IAT sensors are located on the inlet air duct directly after the air filter box. Two sensors are fitted; the lower sensor is a combined MAF/IAT sensor and the upper sensor is a MAF sensor only."

I saw absolutely no difference between them when I took them off to inspect/clean and therefore did not pay attention when reattaching to air filter box. They all seem to have the same OEM Nr. (Jaguar: C2C 12919 or FORD: 4R8Q-12B57-9AC).

Do they both have the ability to measure air intake temperature but only the lower, one from primary turbo, is used?

 

[hamedhbb]

Hamed, quick question regarding the MAF sensors - are they both (upper and lower) identical? Is it only the harness order that is important?

I ask because on page 1533 in the WS manual it states:

"The MAF/IAT sensors are located on the inlet air duct directly after the air filter box. Two sensors are fitted; the lower sensor is a combined MAF/IAT sensor and the upper sensor is a MAF sensor only."

I saw absolutely no difference between them when I took them off to inspect/clean and therefore did not pay attention when reattaching to air filter box. They all seem to have the same OEM Nr. (Jaguar: C2C 12919 or FORD: 4R8Q-12B57-9AC).

Do they both have the ability to measure air intake temperature but only the lower, one from primary turbo, is used?

Yes they are replaceable but connectors are not because one of the connectors has less number of wires that is to read Temperature. Otherwise sensors both have a ntc temp sensor. You can swap them to see if DTC code changes from MAF B to A. But I gues you just need to swap connectors for now.
The connector with more wires should go to bottom MAF that goes to LH turbo.

 

[chaba]

Yes they are replaceable but connectors are not because one of the connectors has less number of wires that is to read Temperature. Otherwise sensors both have a ntc temp sensor. You can swap them to see if DTC code changes from MAF B to A. But I gues you just need to swap connectors for now.
The connector with more wires should go to bottom MAF that goes to LH turbo.

 

[chaba]

Had a look at all the seals etc after dismantling a few things again to gain access.

The 2 MAF sensor connectors were the correct way round and all seals (also around throttle body) OK. Also all seals around the oil separator and primary turbo seemed fine.

However, the two screws holding the LH EGR pipe to the EGR unit were loose. I must have forgotten to tighten - what an idiot! That explains the excess smoke I saw coming from the engine and probably explains the boost leak.

Also, the vacuum pipe from small air box to secondary turbo was broken. There was a crack in hard, plastic tube so I replaced with another piece of strong but more flexible piping. Had to heat ends to get them firmly pushed:

It started raining again so will test tomorrow if this helps after clearing codes and taking the car out for run.

The new differential pressure sensor also arrived just now so will install tomorrow. Hopefully I can reach it from underneath the car without having to remove this supporting bridge:

 

[PeteA]

...However, the two screws holding the LH EGR pipe to the EGR unit were loose. I must have forgotten to tighten - what an idiot! ...

Must not chuckle.. must not chuckle... OK confession time, I did chuckle a bit.. but only because I have been there countless times myself Chaba and know exactly how you felt when you found the loose screws, along the lines of: no doubt...

The worst of it is.. as I get older, I haven't learnt, through previous experience, to live with these 'moments'.. I just get even more annoyed with myself because I really should have learnt by now "FFS"!!!...


I was speaking to a work colleague yesterday who admitted to finishing a job at a customers recently and was about to leave but couldn't find his mobile phone.. after a lot of searching by himself and the customer including the walk from his car and around the carpark.. he then suddenly remembered that the last time he used it.. was as a torch to view something inside the machine he was working on and had then spent over an hour putting back together...

I didn't laugh then either.. obviously...



Good luck with the test drive tomorrow...

 

[wilf]

You most certainly are not alone.

I was working today on the Stag, to replace the driver's side windscreen wiper wheel box (which had a lot of play in it).
Spent ages wondering why it would not go back together properly - (this involves lots of double jointed finger action) until I realised that the new wheelbox was somehow "different" - mainly because it was for a Spitfire, not a Stag, I had ordered the wrong one.
Car now has to stay in bits until the right parts get here - not that it is good "roof down cruising" weather just now.

Duh!