Great news .

 

Er, old news.

 

Can you give us that in layman's terms? Is it a laptop based interface which we can use to program more in depth on our jags.

 

An overview of their IID Tool here - https://www.gap-diagnostic.com

It's a bluetooth ODB dongle which has a corresponding iOS (and now Android it appears) application so no laptop needed. I don't have details on the specifics of the Jaguar implementation but their Land Rover version is very thorough beyond just fault code reading and clearing, it allows live data and other esoteric functions like ride height calibration. One thing that has distinguished GAP is their personal support of users with their product and innovating suggestions from the user community with regular updates.

Once I get more hands on I will be happy to pass along the Jaguar experience...

 

Looking at the cost it's prohibitive for the DIY user. It'd be a lot cheaper to go to someone with the mongoose setup and get them to do whatever is needed.

 

If you already have a LR then the shared cost is better. And honestly it doesn't take long to recoup the DIY costs. I have no faith in the Chinese mangoose as far as support for anything unexpected. You're paying for that demonstrated support from the folks at GAP. But it's just my experience and opinion.

 

You can't be serious comparing a £50 Mangoose piece of clone junk to a IID, where the Pro version is £1700... even comparing a Mangoose to the IID-BT for £400 is a hell of a stretch... If you want a genuine and JLR approved device you have to pay for it. Although the cheapest JLR approved diagnostic interface is actually £180, plus the software, which is technically free to download and you can buy a subscription for a single model and model year, for £111 per year.

Let me follow up with an example - in the model years after 2007, Land Rover enabled a couple of nice extras like clock in the dash and three flash indicators for one one action on the indicator switch. This was done through an update of the firmware of a couple of the ECUs. One of these was the IPC or essentially the dash display module which also handled some security (key) functions. You may see where this is headed...

I can do all that stuff with SDD and my VCM, or my genuine Drewtech MongoosePro JLR-A. And a shitload more, actually I can do way more than even JLR dealerships can...

There were a number of folks who dragged out their Mangoose cables and knock off SDD cracks and attempted to reflash with either the correct software or what they thought was the correct software

Honestly anyone who works on a £50,000 car with a £50 knock-off diagnostic tool and hacked software has it coming to them. It will happen sooner or later.

The GAP tool folks worked out a "just plug it in and it works" firmware which ironically could also rescue those who had been Mangoosed. My LR is a 2007 so I wanted the upgrade features but had no desire for buttock clenching and holding my breath. The IID tool did the deed in about five minutes - no mess no fuss but I had confidence that someone was available at the end of an email or phone to talk me down from the ledge if necessary. As with many products, that's what you pay for.

Cool. But again, you're comparing a £50 counterfeit product with pirated software against an actual engineered product that costs quite a multiple of the price of the counterfeit.

I don't think there's anything wrong with the mongoose pro in the right hands. It certainly sounds like its much more advanced and you can do much more with it. But it comes with the added problem that you can turn your car into a large paper weight.

Genuine approved interface with a properly installed, activated and updated SDD, nothing to worry about unless you're trying to work on very old Jags (say, pre-2003). Though by the time you've set yourself up with a decent working kit you'll have spent the better part of £800 or more for the device, a decent laptop, a big power supply, etc. Actually if you are only interested in 2006-onward JLR vehicles then you get a DA-Dongle, which is also JLR approved and less than half the price of a genuine Mongoose Pro...

On the other hand, there's a £50 junk Mangoose from eBay or some Chinese webshop with a dodgy hack patch from some thief to make it sort of work (sort of), then installed on the oldest cheapest crappiest laptop people can find, with no power supply connected to the car so the battery runs flat half-way through trying to trying to do things they don't understand... that's how you end up with a 5000lb paperweight sitting in the driveway...

I'll admit, SDD is a very unfriendly software for new users. And most vehicle owners just want something that works. Which is why if GAP comes out with a Jaguar IID they will probably sell a few, but I doubt they will ever turn a profit from them. There number of Jags out there are about 1/5th the number of Land Rovers. So for every five IID's they might sell for LR, they might sell one for Jag. Unless the owner happens to own both, then they only sell one unit, and two licenses.

Good luck to 'em.

 

Let me follow up with an example - in the model years after 2007, Land Rover enabled a couple of nice extras like clock in the dash and three flash indicators for one one action on the indicator switch. This was done through an update of the firmware of a couple of the ECUs. One of these was the IPC or essentially the dash display module which also handled some security (key) functions. You may see where this is headed. There were a number of folks who dragged out their Mangoose cables and knock off SDD cracks and attempted to reflash with either the correct software or what they thought was the correct software. Result ? A 5000lb paperweight sitting in the driveway with little clear option to fix but haul it off to the local LR dealer and a blank look of "it just got like that overnight". The GAP tool folks worked out a "just plug it in and it works" firmware which ironically could also rescue those who had been Mangoosed. My LR is a 2007 so I wanted the upgrade features but had no desire for buttock clenching and holding my breath. The IID tool did the deed in about five minutes - no mess no fuss but I had confidence that someone was available at the end of an email or phone to talk me down from the ledge if necessary. As with many products, that's what you pay for.

I had another thread relating to the Foxwell ODB kit which caused my XFR to get into a sulky state which fortunately, a hard reset resolved. I may well sell it (not the Jag) if the GAP tool replaces it as I know which one I trust.

 

I don't think there's anything wrong with the mongoose pro in the right hands. It certainly sounds like its much more advanced and you can do much more with it. But it comes with the added problem that you can turn your car into a large paper weight.

This option sounds like more user friendly version but with less functionality.

It's still not cheap though and for me if rather have a professional working with either, at least you have a bit of come back should the worst happen.

 

"You can't be serious comparing a £50 Mangoose piece of clone junk to a IID, where the Pro version is £1700... even comparing a Mangoose to the IID-BT for £400 is a hell of a stretch... If you want a genuine and JLR approved device you have to pay for it. Although the cheapest JLR approved diagnostic interface is actually £180, plus the software, which is technically free to download and you can buy a subscription for a single model and model year, for £111 per year."

-- I wasn't. I'd love to use the genuine tools and pay for a subscription if it was the price you quote. Unfortunately, I don't know if USA is just singled out, but here's a screen capture from Topix. I think you may be mistaking a Document subscription price for a programming price which is completely out of the ball park for a regular owner. I'd love to be proved wrong but the help desk folks at Topix confirmed that a diagnostic subscription for a single model and model year will not work with SDD. So that's where the vacuum exists that sucks in the Chinese knock of hardware or the cracked SDD with genuine hardware. Either of those make me uncomfortable so I pay GAP. Granted it may not do the full banana that SDD does, but I can still go to my indie or dealer for that stuff. But having tools to manage things like the EPB on my driveway at a reasonable cost and still come out ahead of the shop cost for brakes makes sense to me. Especially if I can still use the car afterwards. For me the knock off pirate crap was a non-starter, which is why I wasn't comparing it....

Now if JLR would do a software subscription to a single model and model year at a scaled down cost, then I'd be interested but they don't. Or at least not according to Topix help desk. The cheapest you can get away with is $80 for a day.

 

-- I wasn't. I'd love to use the genuine tools and pay for a subscription if it was the price you quote. Unfortunately, I don't know if USA is just singled out...

Ah yeah, I forgot you're in the US. If you have an "address" (hint, hint) in the EU or EEC, then it's a different story;

The US market does not come under the legislation which was passed in the EU (and wider EEC) requiring independent access to factory diagnostics at a reasonable price. So you should "move" to the EU, if you know what I mean...

I agree most people who are spending $85K on an XFR or $100K on a Range Rover may just let the dealer handle the blinking lights. But there are enthusiasts out there who like to get their hands dirty either to save money or just to have confidence that the job was done the way they would want it done. Or they are masochists. Or all of the above. Having the tools to do the job is key.

Sure I am one of those enthusiasts.

it doesn't appear that GAP are planning to market directly as a Jaguar tool. There are a number of people like myself who have a LR/RR and their other car is a Jag. And we know that the ECM/ECU systems are very very similar so they already have a lot of the required expertise/dev cost spoken for in their LR/RR kit. It would be uneconomic for a start up to pitch a new product at the Jaguar market small as it is but in this case, they've listened to our requests to add "our other car" to the tool. And for that I applaud them, it may make them no money in the long run, but they're willing to add a capability to their existing hardware.

Yes it's a good thing, for sure. The only concern I have is that they won't be able to spend the the same R&D time/money on developing this "add on" product, so I'm wondering will it be as thorough and reliable as the LR version.

 

"Honestly anyone who works on a £50,000 car with a £50 knock-off diagnostic tool and hacked software has it coming to them. It will happen sooner or later."

-- I agree most people who are spending $85K on an XFR or $100K on a Range Rover may just let the dealer handle the blinking lights. But there are enthusiasts out there who like to get their hands dirty either to save money or just to have confidence that the job was done the way they would want it done. Or they are masochists. Or all of the above. Having the tools to do the job is key.

"Which is why if GAP comes out with a Jaguar IID they will probably sell a few, but I doubt they will ever turn a profit from them. There number of Jags out there are about 1/5th the number of Land Rovers. So for every five IID's they might sell for LR, they might sell one for Jag. Unless the owner happens to own both, then they only sell one unit, and two licenses. "

-- it doesn't appear that GAP are planning to market directly as a Jaguar tool. There are a number of people like myself who have a LR/RR and their other car is a Jag. And we know that the ECM/ECU systems are very very similar so they already have a lot of the required expertise/dev cost spoken for in their LR/RR kit. It would be uneconomic for a start up to pitch a new product at the Jaguar market small as it is but in this case, they've listened to our requests to add "our other car" to the tool. And for that I applaud them, it may make them no money in the long run, but they're willing to add a capability to their existing hardware.

 

Your screen shot is for a Document Subscription - that won't fly for SDD logins so I don't think relocating back to the UK (in spirit) would help me much... <sad face>

I've been looking over a beta copy of the Jaguar software and it's got a lot of the feature set implemented with the notable exception of things like the air suspension ECU. One of the interesting things for me is the live data logging so that I can capture things like supercharger boost pressures as I have a tune and the reduced pulley to increase the boost. Having access to these on an iPad and then being able to save/email/print them is pretty handy.

Lots of people make hammers and spanners, so I'm all for more players in the game Except for the hammers where the head comes off the handle and smacks you in the eye of course.

 

JaaaagStu
Interesting link/post on the Disco 3 site, Jaguar support 2008 on. However as the ex owner of a couple of RR Sports I own the BT Version of the GAP iidTool and have emailed Pat at Gap a couple of times ref the F Pace, he stated that they had an F Pace were working on support.