[hamedhbb]

Thanks Pete
You are right. I took the train to the next bigger town with a tool shop. The train didn't come...it was broken .... my daughter gave me a ride with her Corsa
Finally just bought the ctek mxs 5 for 40% more than via the internet . I think it would be better taking a coffee and relax, rather than repairing anything today .
Dirk

That’s unfortunate Dirk.
I bought a 30A 12V switching power supply to keep the battery running for when I use SDD and use that for charging batteries. I watch it closely though.

I assume you have checked the accessories drive belt tensioner and the belt is not slipping? I guess it was done relatively recent?
Also have you checked the mega fuse on topof RH rear wheel arch behind the boot liner?

 

[hamedhbb]

Nice. More power for the batteries
My Denso is a 150A . The original one and the "copy". Following the manual I would have choosen a 220A

Dirk

Have you seen this:

JAGUAR XK / XF / XJ / F TYPE / XE ALTERNATOR C2D42135 for sale online | eBay

Find many great new & used options and get the best deals for JAGUAR XK / XF / XJ / F TYPE / XE ALTERNATOR C2D42135 at the best online prices at eBay! Free delivery for many products!

www.ebay.co.uk

 

[hamedhbb]

This is a 2

Found it, but the label is slightly different to my Denso. But you are right. The electrical data are the same as my Denso. If you check the Denso page you will find this type. But you won't find my type .

DENSO

View attachment 192959

Would be worth to try it, if I were in the UK . If I could wait another 2 weeks for the part it would be a very interesting option. Half the price than the orignal
Jaguar part sold in Germany . There is a much better market for these parts in the UK.

View attachment 192964


Ciao
Dirk

this is 220A version ( hence -Ax suffix). I guess it’s for cars with stop/start.

I noticed import charges

 

[hamedhbb]

That's the reason why I thought 220A is the right type for me. I have a Start Stop System . But all dealers only have this 150A type as the correct spare type for my car. So I assume 150A is correct. It would be more safe, if Denso had the type 104210-6120 listed on their page. That would be the final proof for the current. But let's believe, all dealers check there data with Jaguar or Denso to assure that they sell the right product

If I consider the electrical data, Start-Stop-System affects mostly the starter. During the start of the engine the power is delivered by the battery. To re-charge the battery, the system uses approx 25A (for a AGM 95Ah battery) charging current. Usually 20%..30% of the capacity of the battery. Only valid for AGM types. So there is still around 120A for the rest of the system. If you switch on every system like heater, heated windscreen and so on, you would dissipate maybe 50-70A. Still 50A gap for additional consumers. So it would be interesting what kind of batteries and equipment the car has, that has a 220A generator
But that's the theory. It would be nice to know, how much the charging current for a AGM battery really is. It depends on the charge status of the battery and the charging controller. And of course, if somebody would measure the current output of the generator directly down where I measured the voltage ...while driving around ....but indeed would be nice to know.
I will measure the current after my exchange of the generator. I am under the car anyway

Cheers
Dirk

The audio system uses 20-30A peak. The listing says it’s mostly for petrol cars and 3.0D disco. I am not sure if it’s mechanically identical though. Atleast the overrunning pulley looks different.
Bear in mind if overrunning pulley malfunctions, a higher rating alternator will exert more load dump to suppressor (if any fitted?) or electronic modules. A couple of modules I have checked are only immune to 35V load dump. I am not sure if suppressor on the Jags are universal or depending on alternator rating.
I would stick to the original rating to be on safe side.

 

[hamedhbb]

Thank you for your fast reply. I will do that tomorrow. I think 1 AM is not a good time for analysis after a long and hot day under the car . It was really nice to do these mechanical works , but I was really upset that I couldn't start the engine . It feels like you didn't cross the Finnish line.
I really hope the modules will wake up tomorrow.
View attachment 193020

Dirk

GSM is part of keyless entry system.
is the battery fully charged? Place the key fob in the slot that is for fobs without battery. Next to boot lid button.
I would check all fuses as well.

 

[hamedhbb]

The red light flashes fast. But I couldn't find the meaning of the flashes in the handbook. It just says
-> Is there a Passive Anti-Theft System (PATS) flash code?
So what does the flashes mean?
I will try to make a video of the red light. Then I can check afterwards how often it flashes.

Thank you for the hint with the page. Do you know if one of my failing modules ist the RJB?
View attachment 193068
The CJB can be found as the BCM and BCMB on CAN_MS.
I will check the RJB later on. Now it looks more like a PATS problem. All modules of PATS are offline.
Let me think about that. The only thing that's a bit strange, via SDD I can verify the keys and SDD tells me that they are programmed/stored in the system. So the systems knows my keys.

View attachment 193069

View attachment 193070 View attachment 193071

Dirk

Does keyfob lock and unlock the car?

Just a couple of ideas:
1-Have you checked the large fuses using a multimeter?
2- AAM is also not responding. When you open the door, do you hear the amplifier cooling fan working inside the boot, left hand side? I wanted too see if it’s the power supply issue or canbus wiring.
3- does start button led shows the heartbeat flashing at all?
4- Have you checked the fuses under the bonnet.

 

[hamedhbb]

Sorry Phil. Not specific enough.

1. Open driver's door and leave it open
2. start button heartbeating
3. place smart key at the gear shifter
4. press start
5. No reaction
6. System is booting. Jaguar logo is on the screen

Next step.

1. Take smart key out. Close driver's door.
2. open passengers door
3. press start with smart key next to gear shifter
4. No reaction.
5. Press Open button on fob and hold it. Press start button.
6. Message "Smart key not found"
7. Press start a second time
8. Message "Change location of smart key"
9. But you won't find a place where this key can be found

This desription is much better

Dirk

I also suggest replacing the battery in the fob.
Do you mean you don’t have this slot:

 

[hamedhbb]

Pardon our interruption...

this is what Onotole did. restoring the backup manually.

it’s really scary that you waited 30mins before disconnecting the battery and you still have to go through this! Did you have the key fob near car or touched the doors within that 30mins?

front CJB repair

Hello. Here is my expierience with front CJB repair on facelift X250. The problem was that car lost all keys after disconnecting battery. No central locking, no ignition. I rewrite keys with sdd, car starts, but windshild washer goes out. SDD shows me error u3002-81. Also, there were no VIN in...

www.jaginfo.org

 

[hamedhbb]

Thank you Hamed.

The key was 10 meters away in the house in a metal box (shielded ) . I also measured the quiescent current before I disconnected the batteries. It was around 5-20 mA. I am not really sure if 5 or 20 mA.
I got another hint, that maybe the sun and the heat was my enemy during the boot up. Air was 30°C and the sun did shine directly on to the side of the car with CJB and RJB. For around 6 hours. Maybe that was too much for my cat. But the first attempt to start was at 9 PM. So 3 hours without sun but still 28°C air temp.

Dirk

Reading Onotole’s post, it seems he could reprogram the keys but they were lost after disconnecting the battery. I guess the eeprom was corrupted before you started this job and it only showed up this time after you have disconnected both batteries. Probably it’s been long time since you have disconnected both batteries together.

 

[hamedhbb]

Newer ones are like in this manual page.
Is your car not like that? ( I thought it was all facelifts but maybe it's just 2013 on, or the sportbrake, so just curious )

Mine is 2012 and does have the slot. My key fob also looks different. The one with chrome trim on both sides. According to google, the new fob introduced in 2013 and due to its shape it cannot slide into that slot. I didn’t know this.

 

[hamedhbb]

Onotole and MoJo can perform a temp. fix with SDD or a permanent one if you send your CJB off to them Hamed, I really must get round to sending mine off to MoJo..

Is yours on life support as well? 😰

 

[hamedhbb]

Coming back to my serious problem.....I would follow Hamed, it was corrupted long long time before my repair...please tell this my wife
Ok. What I did today:

1. Downgrade my laptop to SDD V159
2. Tried to get the VIN based CCF via offline function -> No success on my non SDD laptop
3. Installed a internet access point next to the car and tried it online with a mix of offline started SDD and switch on the wifi later on -> no success with VIN based CCF but could download standard config files. I will check that tomorrow again.

You are right Hamed, I changed the batteries 1.5 years ago and since then did not disconnect both batteries. That's were I had the first contact with SDD. Problem was solved by the
immobilization function. Maybe this was already a temp fix of keys.

Further question:

1. I found two DTC from the GWM with incorrect firmware and one with faulty eeprom. Both are present since 1.5 years. Do I have a faulty GWM, too? Or maybe ONLY a faulty GWM?
2. MoJo could help with a temp fix via SDD? Do you know how? Via teamviewer live on my system? Or would this be a thing that I could do with the guideline?
3. Would your ebay-link, Hamed, be worth to try?

View attachment 193111


Dirk

Interesting find. Tbh I don’t know what is GWM. My car doesn’t show a GWM. But I know BCM is an integral part of CJB. Is it GSM?
Both Mojo and Onotole have been helping forum members. I would consult them first before sending the unit anywhere.
The VIN based ccf download never worked for anyone here. Just try to reconfigure your CJB as a new unit or follow the routine that says CCF is not compatible (sorry cannot remember the exact wording). It will download the CCF automatically. However because you have used SDD before chances are that CCF is already downloaded. It’s a rar file in a folder called asbuilt. You have to unrar to see you cars ccf but SDD will use the packaged rar file for upgrading the ccf.

 

[hamedhbb]

I design electronic modules for JCB, CAT, etc. I once opened the parking module of my Jag to see the design and the level of electronic protection against transient voltages was shocking! Just very basic reverse and over-voltage up to 35v. I know regulation for passenger cars are looser than industrial ones but still outdated for their age.

 

[hamedhbb]

As the job started with a failing/failed alternator it seems there's a good chance the battery got too low and caused the corruption then before the disconnect. ( if that is indeed the fault. )

Yes those are covered by many standards. They should survive all those fluctuations in voltage during crancking, jump starts, faulty alternator, disconnection of alternator etc. either individually or by help of a central protection system.

 

[hamedhbb]

Immobilisation was out of sync as per the DTCs that I see all too often. Immobilisation procedure would not complete due to ignition issue.

1) Re-program the KVM (to allow ignition)
2) Re-program the BCM
3) Update the BCMB (always should be the at the same software level as BCM)
4) Run Immobilisation again which succeeded due to successful ignition
5) Start the car

Great job MoJo. Even I can sleep better tonight knowing there is a solution for this issue!

 

[hamedhbb]

Thanks Phil. Yes, I kept that in mind with my GWM. Therefore I was happy to see, that it was still alive yesterday .
I only have this good but simple scope. I can just watch. The LIN signal ist only the request from the GWM to the generator. I took it directly at the connector of the generator
while it was disconnected and the engine was running.

Maybe I could take the signal from a connector next to the GWM. I will try to find the right pin at the connectors .
First I will take the recommendations from MoJo above and try to have a safe contact to the LIN contact of the generator. Maybe the contact is too short or the housing is not in specification. It is really not easy to put something like a crocodile clip on it, because there is nearly no space for your hand to operate.

Hopefully this afternoon. If it's not raining....

Dirk

Have you seen this:

see the part about alternator connector at around 11:00.

 

[hamedhbb]

Thank you hamed! I havn't seen the video before. What he mentioned about the connector is really what I have in mind. Because I don't here a click when I push it in. But it can be pushed in as deep as into the old generator. So it might not be the root cause, but I am going to check it. That's why I first checked if there is a communication at all on the LIN Bus. Ok, I can't see if this the generator response or one of the other components on the LIN bus A. I think there should be more the one thing on this bus A.

Dirk

LIN bus is bidirectional. If you have access to the plug, could you use a crocodile connector and temporarily make the connection? Alternatively, is the electronics on the old alternator transferable to the new one?
An last question, are you sure it’s LIN? Being one wire, it feels like it’s just a tachometer and sends the alternator speed. I haven’t checked the WM.

 

[hamedhbb]

Lin is only one wire mate, think it’s a bosch invention, basically it’s just a serial comms wire (With reference to chassis)

Yes Gav, I use LIN at work. I meant there is no power going to it. Probably it’s fed from the alternator directly.

 

[hamedhbb]

Bang, bang..... Fxxxx connector!! It is not solved but the root cause is found!! No "Battery not charging" after 2 minutes test run. Voltage at the batteries 14.4 V !!

Thank you @hamedhbb for the video. That really pushed me to find a suitable adapter to "bridge" the LIN bus signal. Finally I took a M8 screw . I will place a picture soon of my high sophisticated adapter. I believe Hamed would have developed a much better adapter

Now it is "just" left to find a solution for this connector issue with or without the company I bought it from .
I would prefer a solution without changing the generator again
With the guide from @The vast minority it is practicable, but it is still much work

I am glad MoJo fixed my control modules over the internet and I am glad I finally found the root cause for the new non charging fault...now I will go for several glass of wine
Thank you for your help and patience !

Dirk

I am glad it’s all sorted. Nothing on these cars is simple. Even the most straightforward jobs!

it needs some skills to make a connector that goes all the way in but won’t make any connection at all 🤪

enjoy the weekend Dirk 🍻. The cat would be back on the road for the next week.

 

[hamedhbb]

I remember reading that the GWM sends a lin message to request a specific output voltage from the alternator. Presumably then the alternator sends a lin response to indicate it's working ok. ( Looks like the GWM is the lin master given that Dirk could see the lin traffic without the alternator connected, and there are no other devices on the bus - well unless the GWM wires it together internally with the lin bus for the bms, but as far as I understand they are separate buses )

LIN is bidirectional. Perhaps the signal Dirk saw was the request message towards the alternator.