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Hi all,

So this thread will largely (hopefully!) follow the direction of my previous project thread. Short story - an engine rebuild on an XFR 5.0 SC. Details here.

So I tend to buy cars that need some TLC. This car is a 2012 Discovery 4 3.0 TDV6 XS with 100k miles. It needs some TLC. Specifically an engine rebuild, as the current one is seized. The previous owner informs me:
  • The EML came on. It went to a Land Rover dealer in the Cheshire region in February 2020 where they discovered an air leak and a worn n/s/r upper arm. The bill for remedial work came to a little over £2k.
  • 700 miles later the engine seized. Further attempts to start it failed.
  • After some reflection he decided to sell it as is, rather than send it in for strip down, investigation and repair. Ultimately it ended up in my hands, for approx 50% of it's market value.
I must point out at the moment there is nothing to suggest foul play on the part of the dealer. I hope to discover the root cause of the problem, but only time will tell.

So, here is the problem child:


Untitled
by Chris B, on Flickr

I've not worked on a Land Rover since I was in my early 20s. I'll be 60 next year. I used to think these were the kind of vehicle you'd find it far flung, barren corners of the world where the only existence was a few fossils, sand and perhaps yourself, driving a Land Rover. I used to think they were a rugged but relatively simple vehicle that a "bush mechanic" could work on with limited tools. How wrong I was. Imagine my surprise when I discovered an engine rebuild on one of these requires the body to come off. :oops:

Anybody who read the previous thread knows my working conditions. No I don't have a ramp, but I do have use of a couple of private garages and some tools. I must say YouTubers like Piston Broke and Samcrac are very helpful too. They've both been involved in vehicles like this one and seeing their experience certainly helps me out. So thumbs up to them (y)

So on with the job...

Initial investigations showed there lots to take apart for me to be able to hoist the engine out of the front. Off came the bumper, all undertrays, front radiator assy (a big job on it's own!), propshaft, suspension arms, exhausts, lower cross member amongst many other things. One of which includes the sump, which revealed there was not a great deal of oil in the engine. A litre or two, approximately...

Also in the sump I found this:


Untitled
by Chris B, on Flickr

At this point it would appear a rod has failed and is now mangled against the crank, hence the engine is seized. So I started procuring some parts. As luck would have it, I came across a used but recently re-finished crank on eBay. With the crank came a box of many, many engine ancillaries from a scrapped Disco. All sorts from starter motors to turbos etc. I would have preferred to use my original crank, but these parts came up at a price that could not be refused, given I do not know at this point if my original crank can be re-finished or is a pile of scrap.

And back to the work. After an almighty fight trying to separate the engine from the gearbox (crow bar came in handy, again) there was some tangible progress:


Untitled
by Chris B, on Flickr

After separating the heads from the block, I discovered the damaged rod on cylinder no1.


Untitled
by Chris B, on Flickr

And this brings us up to today. Next steps are to examine and refurb the heads by way of cleaning. The valves don't appear to be bent so they will be re-used after a clean-up. I've got new head gaskets, oil seals, trigger wheel and tappets enroute.

More updates to come in the next few weeks. Hope you enjoy...
 

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A real nuts and bolts rebuild. Going to watch this on with great interest. Good luck going forward.
 

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Hi all,

So this thread will largely (hopefully!) follow the direction of my previous project thread. Short story - an engine rebuild on an XFR 5.0 SC. Details here.

So I tend to buy cars that need some TLC. This car is a 2012 Discovery 4 3.0 TDV6 XS with 100k miles. It needs some TLC. Specifically an engine rebuild, as the current one is seized. The previous owner informs me:
  • The EML came on. It went to a Land Rover dealer in the Cheshire region in February 2020 where they discovered an air leak and a worn n/s/r upper arm. The bill for remedial work came to a little over £2k.
  • 700 miles later the engine seized. Further attempts to start it failed.
  • After some reflection he decided to sell it as is, rather than send it in for strip down, investigation and repair. Ultimately it ended up in my hands, for approx 50% of it's market value.
I must point out at the moment there is nothing to suggest foul play on the part of the dealer. I hope to discover the root cause of the problem, but only time will tell.

So, here is the problem child:


Untitled
by Chris B, on Flickr

I've not worked on a Land Rover since I was in my early 20s. I'll be 60 next year. I used to think these were the kind of vehicle you'd find it far flung, barren corners of the world where the only existence was a few fossils, sand and perhaps yourself, driving a Land Rover. I used to think they were a rugged but relatively simple vehicle that a "bush mechanic" could work on with limited tools. How wrong I was. Imagine my surprise when I discovered an engine rebuild on one of these requires the body to come off. :oops:

Anybody who read the previous thread knows my working conditions. No I don't have a ramp, but I do have use of a couple of private garages and some tools. I must say YouTubers like Piston Broke and Samcrac are very helpful too. They've both been involved in vehicles like this one and seeing their experience certainly helps me out. So thumbs up to them (y)

So on with the job...

Initial investigations showed there lots to take apart for me to be able to hoist the engine out of the front. Off came the bumper, all undertrays, front radiator assy (a big job on it's own!), propshaft, suspension arms, exhausts, lower cross member amongst many other things. One of which includes the sump, which revealed there was not a great deal of oil in the engine. A litre or two, approximately...

Also in the sump I found this:


Untitled
by Chris B, on Flickr

At this point it would appear a rod has failed and is now mangled against the crank, hence the engine is seized. So I started procuring some parts. As luck would have it, I came across a used but recently re-finished crank on eBay. With the crank came a box of many, many engine ancillaries from a scrapped Disco. All sorts from starter motors to turbos etc. I would have preferred to use my original crank, but these parts came up at a price that could not be refused, given I do not know at this point if my original crank can be re-finished or is a pile of scrap.

And back to the work. After an almighty fight trying to separate the engine from the gearbox (crow bar came in handy, again) there was some tangible progress:


Untitled
by Chris B, on Flickr

After separating the heads from the block, I discovered the damaged rod on cylinder no1.


Untitled
by Chris B, on Flickr

And this brings us up to today. Next steps are to examine and refurb the heads by way of cleaning. The valves don't appear to be bent so they will be re-used after a clean-up. I've got new head gaskets, oil seals, trigger wheel and tappets enroute.

More updates to come in the next few weeks. Hope you enjoy...
Do you mean you could take the engine out without detaching body from chassis on a RR?!

WM says you shouldn’t take the torque converter. I guess you did because crankshaft wasn’t rotating to access the bolts. I disconnected drive shaft and pushed the box backward and it was easy. For bell housing bolts and nuts I use a long extension bar from back of gearbox.

Hats off to you specially if you are doing this without a help. My problem was an oil leak from RH turbo return and maybe oil dilution. Because only one big end spun the bearing and no other one had issues, I guess the leak started during a long trip and made the damage before a low oil message could show up. It’s good to find the reason behind this before rebuild. I hope the engine block is not deformed that main bearings need reboring.
It’s very unlikely you have a deformed head on a diesel like this. The fuel pump also could be the reason.
 

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Looking forward to this also Blanco!!.. (y)
 

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Wow, fantastic! Wouldn’t it be cheaper to buy a second hand engine? Are you planning upgrades?
 

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I am beginning to wonder if the reported spate of broken cranks on 3.0 V6 diesels is linked to very low engine oil levels, certainly there is other anecdotal evidence to suggest that. Are LR owners really that careless or is there a problem with these engines ingesting their own lubricating oil via the crankcase breathing system?
 

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Love those Discoveries. One thing I might suggest is the purchase from Gap Diagnostics called an IID tool. These are for all trouble shooting and can be used to enable certain functions and resetting of modules etc etc etc . There’s nothing the tool can’t do and may prove to be handy during the build. Not affiliated in anyway but had one when i owned a Disco 3 and RR .
 

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Do you mean you could take the engine out without detaching body from chassis on a RR?!

WM says you shouldn’t take the torque converter. I guess you did because crankshaft wasn’t rotating to access the bolts. I disconnected drive shaft and pushed the box backward and it was easy. For bell housing bolts and nuts I use a long extension bar from back of gearbox.

Hats off to you specially if you are doing this without a help. My problem was an oil leak from RH turbo return and maybe oil dilution. Because only one big end spun the bearing and no other one had issues, I guess the leak started during a long trip and made the damage before a low oil message could show up. It’s good to find the reason behind this before rebuild. I hope the engine block is not deformed that main bearings need reboring.
It’s very unlikely you have a deformed head on a diesel like this. The fuel pump also could be the reason.
The body on the Discovery can be hoisted from the chassis to access the engine. A few bolts and the body can be removed .


 

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The body on the Discovery can be hoisted from the chassis to access the engine. A few bolts and the body can be removed .


As mentioned in post #3, I thought this is the only way!
 

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Discussion Starter #11
Do you mean you could take the engine out without detaching body from chassis on a RR?!
In all honesty if you have access to a lift, that is the best way to do the job, I'm doing it a more long winded way out of necessity. But yes, it's possible :D
I guess you did because crankshaft wasn’t rotating to access the bolts.
Yeah, this issue forced my hand. The WM is a God-send, although it doesn't cater for every eventuality. But I'm confident there's enough info out there between the WM, Piston Broke's videos etc to get everything back into the correct positions.
My problem was an oil leak from RH turbo return and maybe oil dilution.
Very interesting, that's the second instance I've heard of this now. I'll be checking the turbos thoroughly. The sump had far less oil than expected to it must have gone somewhere. I did find quite a lot of oil in the intercooler pipework, I know that the 3.0 TDV6 has a design flaw that allows some oil to pool in the secondary turbo and cause smoke under load. How much oil use this causes and whether it's been a factor in the failure of this engine I don't know, but I've got all the revised parts to modify it as per LTB00487v6.
Wow, fantastic! Wouldn’t it be cheaper to buy a second hand engine? Are you planning upgrades?
I think I've got all the parts I need to repair this engine, and the spend stands at about £1,200 in parts so far (a mixture of new and used items). A replacement engine I think would be twice the amount I reckon.
I am beginning to wonder if the reported spate of broken cranks on 3.0 V6 diesels is linked to very low engine oil levels, certainly there is other anecdotal evidence to suggest that. Are LR owners really that careless or is there a problem with these engines ingesting their own lubricating oil via the crankcase breathing system?
Oil ingestion definitely seems to be an issue on these, through turbo failure as mentioned above. Have also heard of injector failure causing piston failure. In fact, the guy I bought the used crankshaft from, his engine had a crank regrind and new conrod bearings, before eventually succumbing to injector failure (and thus a melted piston) a short while after. I think I should definitely get my injectors checked/cleaned. They're a fortune to buy new. With the tractor had a 100k it puts me in a bit of a quandry.
Love those Discoveries. One thing I might suggest is the purchase from Gap Diagnostics called an IID tool. These are for all trouble shooting and can be used to enable certain functions and resetting of modules etc etc etc . There’s nothing the tool can’t do and may prove to be handy during the build. Not affiliated in anyway but had one when i owned a Disco 3 and RR .
Thanks for the tip. I've got use of an old version of SDD currently. It's cumbersome to use so if there's something else out there that's good value I'm all ears.
 

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In all honesty if you have access to a lift, that is the best way to do the job, I'm doing it a more long winded way out of necessity. But yes, it's possible :D

Yeah, this issue forced my hand. The WM is a God-send, although it doesn't cater for every eventuality. But I'm confident there's enough info out there between the WM, Piston Broke's videos etc to get everything back into the correct positions.

Very interesting, that's the second instance I've heard of this now. I'll be checking the turbos thoroughly. The sump had far less oil than expected to it must have gone somewhere. I did find quite a lot of oil in the intercooler pipework, I know that the 3.0 TDV6 has a design flaw that allows some oil to pool in the secondary turbo and cause smoke under load. How much oil use this causes and whether it's been a factor in the failure of this engine I don't know, but I've got all the revised parts to modify it as per LTB00487v6.

I think I've got all the parts I need to repair this engine, and the spend stands at about £1,200 in parts so far (a mixture of new and used items). A replacement engine I think would be twice the amount I reckon.

Oil ingestion definitely seems to be an issue on these, through turbo failure as mentioned above. Have also heard of injector failure causing piston failure. In fact, the guy I bought the used crankshaft from, his engine had a crank regrind and new conrod bearings, before eventually succumbing to injector failure (and thus a melted piston) a short while after. I think I should definitely get my injectors checked/cleaned. They're a fortune to buy new. With the tractor had a 100k it puts me in a bit of a quandry.

Thanks for the tip. I've got use of an old version of SDD currently. It's cumbersome to use so if there's something else out there that's good value I'm all ears.
Link here fantastic tool and a must have

 

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In all honesty if you have access to a lift, that is the best way to do the job, I'm doing it a more long winded way out of necessity. But yes, it's possible :D

Yeah, this issue forced my hand. The WM is a God-send, although it doesn't cater for every eventuality. But I'm confident there's enough info out there between the WM, Piston Broke's videos etc to get everything back into the correct positions.

Very interesting, that's the second instance I've heard of this now. I'll be checking the turbos thoroughly. The sump had far less oil than expected to it must have gone somewhere. I did find quite a lot of oil in the intercooler pipework, I know that the 3.0 TDV6 has a design flaw that allows some oil to pool in the secondary turbo and cause smoke under load. How much oil use this causes and whether it's been a factor in the failure of this engine I don't know, but I've got all the revised parts to modify it as per LTB00487v6.

I think I've got all the parts I need to repair this engine, and the spend stands at about £1,200 in parts so far (a mixture of new and used items). A replacement engine I think would be twice the amount I reckon.

Oil ingestion definitely seems to be an issue on these, through turbo failure as mentioned above. Have also heard of injector failure causing piston failure. In fact, the guy I bought the used crankshaft from, his engine had a crank regrind and new conrod bearings, before eventually succumbing to injector failure (and thus a melted piston) a short while after. I think I should definitely get my injectors checked/cleaned. They're a fortune to buy new. With the tractor had a 100k it puts me in a bit of a quandry.

Thanks for the tip. I've got use of an old version of SDD currently. It's cumbersome to use so if there's something else out there that's good value I'm all ears.
I have engine rebuild manual that shows the torque settings for main bearing caps and big end bolts let me know if you couldn’t find it.
Some oil in intercooler and bypass valve is normal. That comes from exhaust and condense in intercooler and drips to bypass valve.It was about 1 table spoon for me but in powerfullUK video in utube it was much more and they changed the oil return pipe from turbo with a shorter version.
It could be also the turbo leaking into outlet if gaps are more than allowance.
I rebuilt the engine insitu without removing the engine block from car. But everything goes slower that way.
 

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Discussion Starter #14
I have engine rebuild manual that shows the torque settings for main bearing caps and big end bolts let me know if you couldn’t find it.
I'd be very grateful for those if you could share. Oddly the version of WM I have does not list the torque settings nor the procedure...
 

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Don't Haines do their manuals anymore? Last one I had was for my MkIII Cortina but they were brilliant. Step-by-step with photos.
 

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I'd be very grateful for those if you could share. Oddly the version of WM I have does not list the torque settings nor the procedure...
Don't Haines do their manuals anymore? Last one I had was for my MkIII Cortina but they were brilliant. Step-by-step with photos.
No I was looking around about 3-4months to find them. JLR believes TDV6 and 306DT should not be rebuilt and removed all those information from all their manuals. Luckily this engine was also available on PSA cars and they have covered it.

However when I contacted few reputable places to rebuild the engine they said they are fully booked by main dealer and they are not allowed to directly accept rebuild of these engines from customers!
 

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However when I contacted few reputable places to rebuild the engine they said they are fully booked by main dealer and they are not allowed to directly accept rebuild of these engines from customers!
You mean they don't want your work or money. The dealers or JLR cannot legally instruct an independent garage or repair shop to not work on an engine nor could they put the same in a contract between themselves and the repairer.
 

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You should try the Disco3 uk forum loads of expertise and access on there. Tell them I sent ya .
 

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You should try the Disco3 uk forum loads of expertise and access on there. Tell them I sent ya .
Believe me I have done all that for torque settings for rebuild. I found that on Citroen forums at the end and later found a company that used that PSA info and put it into a different format.
 

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You mean they don't want your work or money. The dealers or JLR cannot legally instruct an independent garage or repair shop to not work on an engine nor could they put the same in a contract between themselves and the repairer.
I guess it was some kind of MOU between them that JLR guarantee their income and they don’t want to loose that stream. Anyway two of them turned me down with the same reason in my area (Nottingham).
You could find places that rebuild the same engine for £3k while it’s £18k if it’s for a 2018 RR and the only difference is exhaust and the program on the PCM.
 
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