Jaguar Forum banner

1 - 20 of 31 Posts

·
Registered
Joined
·
22 Posts
Discussion Starter #1
Hello community,

I need some help for my mechanic and me and my little XF 3.0 dS Sportbrake MY2013.
RP appeared last week for the first time. Fault -> airflow sensor A. I don't know the exact code. Fault code cleared to see if it was just a fault by chance. 2 days later it appeared again. I had a look under the motor cover and saw some oil at the left valve bank. Thought it might be a cracked valve cover. Went to my mechanic. He checked the fault code. Again only the airflow sensor A. He orderd a new one and checked all "known" cables and pressure and underpressure tubes. No cracks found so far. He noticed the oil at the valve cover, but he concentrated on the airflow sensor. Airflow sensor A was ok but airflow sensor B (the lower one if you look into the motor compartment). Its value was flowting from 0 to 200 while the airflow sensor A was at 0.5 to 1.5. So he changed the airflow sensor B. System was stable again. Got the car back yesterday and after a testdrive of 5 minutes RP appeared again. I checked the oily valve cover, cleaned it to see where the oil comes again. Suddenly I hold a broken end of the crankshaft ventilation tube in my hands. Fixed it with tape and went to the mechanic again this morning. He changed the whole crankshaft ventilation tube and we found two additional weak locations. Fault code cleared and performed a testdrive together. Everything was fine for the first 1.5 km with 50 km/h. Then accelared moderate to 80 km/h. Normal reaction with max 2000 rpm. Then accelerated with maximum range to 150 km/h. Normal rpm with a maximum of 4000. 1.5 km later RP appeared. Went back to the garage. The same fault with airflow sensor A but airflow sensor B is flowting from 0 to 200 while accelerating in idle.
So far the preamble.

The mechanic will now search again for cracked tubes (pressure and underpressure, loose clamps, loose electric contacts, last DPF regeneration, non working valves....

And maybe somebody had a similar issue with this airflow sensor fault and in the end it was something complete different and the root cause was a full ashtray or something like that. Please see also attached pictures.
Here some facts that may help you to say "Yes I know the root cause" :)
  • Testdrive on Autobahn -> 128 km/h 1700 rpm constantly driven 5 km with cruise control -> RP appeared
  • Testdrive in Mode S + shifted by hand at 1750 rpm + gas pedal at max -> RP in 6th gear
  • Testdrive in Normal mode + plane road + accelerating from 50 km/h to 120 km/h with 50% gas pedal
    -> accelerating up to 5000 rpm + shifts to next gear + down to 3000 rpm + and so on till 120 km/h and 3000 rpm
    -> switch cruise control on -> automatically slows down to 120 km/h and 2250 rpm -> RP appeared after 1 km
I hope somebody can help to shorten our fault analyis.

Dirk
 

Attachments

·
Registered
Joined
·
591 Posts
Hello community,

I need some help for my mechanic and me and my little XF 3.0 dS Sportbrake MY2013.
RP appeared last week for the first time. Fault -> airflow sensor A. I don't know the exact code. Fault code cleared to see if it was just a fault by chance. 2 days later it appeared again. I had a look under the motor cover and saw some oil at the left valve bank. Thought it might be a cracked valve cover. Went to my mechanic. He checked the fault code. Again only the airflow sensor A. He orderd a new one and checked all "known" cables and pressure and underpressure tubes. No cracks found so far. He noticed the oil at the valve cover, but he concentrated on the airflow sensor. Airflow sensor A was ok but airflow sensor B (the lower one if you look into the motor compartment). Its value was flowting from 0 to 200 while the airflow sensor A was at 0.5 to 1.5. So he changed the airflow sensor B. System was stable again. Got the car back yesterday and after a testdrive of 5 minutes RP appeared again. I checked the oily valve cover, cleaned it to see where the oil comes again. Suddenly I hold a broken end of the crankshaft ventilation tube in my hands. Fixed it with tape and went to the mechanic again this morning. He changed the whole crankshaft ventilation tube and we found two additional weak locations. Fault code cleared and performed a testdrive together. Everything was fine for the first 1.5 km with 50 km/h. Then accelared moderate to 80 km/h. Normal reaction with max 2000 rpm. Then accelerated with maximum range to 150 km/h. Normal rpm with a maximum of 4000. 1.5 km later RP appeared. Went back to the garage. The same fault with airflow sensor A but airflow sensor B is flowting from 0 to 200 while accelerating in idle.
So far the preamble.

The mechanic will now search again for cracked tubes (pressure and underpressure, loose clamps, loose electric contacts, last DPF regeneration, non working valves....

And maybe somebody had a similar issue with this airflow sensor fault and in the end it was something complete different and the root cause was a full ashtray or something like that. Please see also attached pictures.
Here some facts that may help you to say "Yes I know the root cause" :)
  • Testdrive on Autobahn -> 128 km/h 1700 rpm constantly driven 5 km with cruise control -> RP appeared
  • Testdrive in Mode S + shifted by hand at 1750 rpm + gas pedal at max -> RP in 6th gear
  • Testdrive in Normal mode + plane road + accelerating from 50 km/h to 120 km/h with 50% gas pedal
    -> accelerating up to 5000 rpm + shifts to next gear + down to 3000 rpm + and so on till 120 km/h and 3000 rpm
    -> switch cruise control on -> automatically slows down to 120 km/h and 2250 rpm -> RP appeared after 1 km
I hope somebody can help to shorten our fault analyis.

Dirk
Hi
I have had all the issues you might have. First let’s make it clear that the MAF sensor on top is B that goes to right hand turbo (when you are in driver seat). The bottom one is A.
the MAF readings are correct. MAF B should read ideally zero before the second turbo kicks in(normally at 2800+ rpm). However every few mins at idle engine turns second turbo for lubrication and then you might read very low flow on MAF B.
the situations that you described is when engine runs stably and ECM can check for faults in Airflow or boost circuits.

at idle you should read about 18gr/sec flow at MAF A and nearly zero at MAF B. Under heavy acceleration the both can reach as high as 150gr/sec!!

I had issue with MAF A. Visually the visible metal parts were rusted while the other one was fine. So I replaced that. It was reading constantly 250. The car was able to start and drive in RP. One quick test is to swap A and B to see if the error code will change as well as when car goes to RP.
If the error code you mentioned is he only one you get, I personally think you have a air leakage before turbos or a faulty MAF sensor. The pipe where you highlighted is to take the evaporated oil back to sump. It is a vacuumed line but separate from the vacuum circuit that is for brake, actuators, etc. The vacuum is made by intake air flow. Not sure if it is taken before or after MAF.

I am dealing with cracked valve covers right now. So if you see P00BF-07 and P006A, it is a cracked valve cover( which is inlet manifold as well). My symptoms where like you. If you lift that foam to see injectors they should be clean and dry. if you see oil there as well as on the engine cover the problem is crack on inlet manifold which is a known issue for this engine. It is almost impossible to see the crack. You only see the oil mist and it’s not a lot. In early stages it only leaks at high boost pressures. If you continue driving you start hearing noise when accelerating from top back of engine.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
22 Posts
Discussion Starter #3
Thank you for the information. I will check that and hopefully it is not a cracked valve cover....
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
22 Posts
Discussion Starter #4
The mechanic was already on his way to trace the fault down to the first charger. He didn't trust in his books so he measured yesterday already which is A and which is B :) . Now today he will try to find one or many things that you will normally not dectect at first sight because the fault occures while the motor gets warmer. Even my first testdrive after changing the MAF sensor, the motor was very warm because the cat stood in the sun for maybe 6 hours and we had 34°C in the shade. So maybe he will find very small cracks that will grow during temperature is rising.

The second thing he found today in the morning was underpressure in the coolant system. In his opinion it was too much because the coolant tubes next to the coolant tank have been constricted. And when he opened the lid of this tank you could hear the air sucked into the system. So he will have a look at this too. Maybe only happend by chance, maybe not. I will let you know :) .
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
22 Posts
Discussion Starter #5
I just got the cat back. After 3 hours of search and analysis it seems to be a cracked valve cover. So before we just buy the parts and do it, I just wanted to ask if the issue is really a somehow damaged valve cover.
The mechanic didn't find any other cracked tube or loose parts. DPF ist slightly full and can't be regenerated. Maybe because of the other fault.
But now the new fact. You can hear and feel a massive airflow on the drivers side on top of the motor. I marked the location on the picture. Airflow starts at 2000 rpm and gets heavy at 3000 rpm. The mechanic thinks it might be defective tumble valve inside the valve cover. In most cases one axle (plastic part?!) is broken. Nevertheless this means changing the hole valve cover. He knows about the time effort. So we are not suprised about the calculated 11 hours from Land Rover. I asked him to change both sides in one session.
But are these symptoms really a valve cover problem? Just to be sure before I buy the parts :).

And no, I won't ask Jaguar to do it. The cat is 7 years old and has a mileage of 190.000 km. I don't expect any goodwill action because I had the cat serviced by an independent garage.

Does anybody know if this bulletin exists for Jaguar XF too? I couldn't find it on internet.
 

Attachments

·
Registered
Joined
·
591 Posts
I just got the cat back. After 3 hours of search and analysis it seems to be a cracked valve cover. So before we just buy the parts and do it, I just wanted to ask if the issue is really a somehow damaged valve cover.
The mechanic didn't find any other cracked tube or loose parts. DPF ist slightly full and can't be regenerated. Maybe because of the other fault.
But now the new fact. You can hear and feel a massive airflow on the drivers side on top of the motor. I marked the location on the picture. Airflow starts at 2000 rpm and gets heavy at 3000 rpm. The mechanic thinks it might be defective tumble valve inside the valve cover. In most cases one axle (plastic part?!) is broken. Nevertheless this means changing the hole valve cover. He knows about the time effort. So we are not suprised about the calculated 11 hours from Land Rover. I asked him to change both sides in one session.
But are these symptoms really a valve cover problem? Just to be sure before I buy the parts :).

And no, I won't ask Jaguar to do it. The cat is 7 years old and has a mileage of 190.000 km. I don't expect any goodwill action because I had the cat serviced by an independent garage.

Does anybody know if this bulletin exists for Jaguar XF too? I couldn't find it on internet.
Just google it using 306dt keyword and you will see how common it is. As I mentioned you have exactly same symptoms that I have. I started changing them this afternoon 2pm. So far I have replaced RH and almost taking out LH one. It’s a very common problem. Specially on land rovers. Use Landrover part number. Parts would be much cheaper. I bought both of them for £90 shipped and it seems good quality.
I am not sure what causes this but based in my car history, it is one of these:
-low quality oil (I used for break in after engine rebuild)
-fuel additive or low quality fuel
-maf,map or air leakage before turbos. Basically anything that could cause ECM get boost pressure wrong and increase it to a point that part blows.

when RP happens, engine will not regenerate DPF and that will add to other problems to a point where you will have oil dilution and bearing issues.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
22 Posts
Discussion Starter #7
Hello hamedhbb,
thanks a lot. That's why I don't drive the cat at the moment. Do you change some o-rings on your injectors or only the copper sealing? I am a little bit confused. A german Jag-dealer want's to sell a set of 1 copper and 2 o-ring sealings for my motor. Nearly 20 EUR per injector :-(. Another big dealer in the netherlands told me this afternoon I would only need
the copper sealing. I have the 275 PS engine in my sportbreak. What engine do you have in your cat?
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
591 Posts
Hello hamedhbb,
thanks a lot. That's why I don't drive the cat at the moment. Do you change some o-rings on your injectors or only the copper sealing? I am a little bit confused. A german Jag-dealer want's to sell a set of 1 copper and 2 o-ring sealings for my motor. Nearly 20 EUR per injector :-(. Another big dealer in the netherlands told me this afternoon I would only need
the copper sealing. I have the 275 PS engine in my sportbreak. What engine do you have in your cat?
Same engine.
When I rebuilt my engine 8months ago reused original copper seal and orings. Today when I removed them there was no problem at all. The vacuum was so strong that even after 24hours, most difficult part was taking injectors out. I would recommend just sand the copper washers with 600-1000grit sand paper very lightly if they are dirty. If not just clean them using a brake cleaner. It’s copper and it won’t deform. If you torque bolts correctly thickness doesn’t matter. Orings are only for protection agains contamination. Just don’t use harsh chemicals on them.
If you really want to change them, copper washer are cheap. These Bosch injectors are found on many German made cars. You can find them cheaper than JLR branded ones. For orings, also you can find any oring with same size and preferably same colour (Brown) that probably represents the material.
likeThis
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
22 Posts
Discussion Starter #9 (Edited)
Thank you very much for your reply! My mechanic asked me to order the copper parts. He didn't want to use the
old ones. But he didn't mind to use the old o-rings :) OK. He is the expert :). My wife told me, not asking :) , to let our mechanic do this repair. OK, I think he is much faster than me and my wife has planned some other happenings during our holidays then repair a manifold.
I found the copper parts in Germany too. So its just 10 EUR in Germany for the 6 copper parts. That would be fine. And I think if we need some o-rings during the repair, he will have some in his garage. It is a real independet small garage
just 1 mile away from my home. I really don't trust in our local jaguar dealer. Nice guys but my first 2 repairs were somehow horrible, but expensive :). But that's the same with many jaguar dealers in Germany.
So good luck for your cat-care-session!!
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
22 Posts
Discussion Starter #10
Do you have any idea where to buy the crankshaft breather hose? I can only find the ones for the former model like this
Link. But I don't have these big connectors. The german dealers say it is out of stock. And I couldn't even find a used one for the moment. Do I have to search with other keywords? I have tried PVC, breather, crank? vent, ventilation,.... Thanks for any hint.
 

Attachments

·
Registered
Joined
·
591 Posts
Do you have any idea where to buy the crankshaft breather hose? I can only find the ones for the former model like this
Link. But I don't have these big connectors. The german dealers say it is out of stock. And I couldn't even find a used one for the moment. Do I have to search with other keywords? I have tried PVC, breather, crank? vent, ventilation,.... Thanks for any hint.
Just google “car vacuum hose“. You can reuse the rubber ends and tee. If not any rubber fitting will do. To be honest for one side l, I used bike brake cable hose because it has metal reinforcement and I could form it and is the same size.
bear in mind it carries very low level vacuum so you can even use fuel hoses.
Don’t forget to drill a hole for vent in new inlet manifold. They have three different vent ports that are all blocked. You have to drill the one that is for your model. For XF it is the top one.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
22 Posts
Discussion Starter #12 (Edited)
Thank you!! Very helpful hints for guys who will do this job for the first time at a XF. Now what? This morning I had this idea, too. I scrapped my old bike parts from the last overhauling and put the rest of the new brake cables in a box :) and I thought this should work for this ventilation too. I found one shop in the UK for this vent tube of the XF, but it was also not on stock. But the PRICE o_O...95 pounds....for a piece of bend plastic...very comfortable way to earn money :). I guessed it something around 40 pounds.... OK I will not pay 95 for that. I will use heavy duty Magura brake tubes :). The ones for the hydraulic brakes :).
Did your overhauling work? Did your parts fit?
Did you buy parts like these: Manifolds R+L
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
591 Posts
Thank you!! Very helpful hints for guys who will do this job for the first time at a XF. Now what? This morning I had this idea, too. I scrapped my old bike parts from the last overhauling and put the rest of the new brake cables in a box :) and I thought this should work for this ventilation too. I found one shop in the UK for this vent tube of the XF, but it was also not on stock. But the PRICE o_O...95 pounds....for a piece of bend plastic...very comfortable way to earn money :). I guessed it something around 40 pounds.... OK I will not pay 95 for that. I will use heavy duty Magura brake tubes :). The ones for the hydraulic brakes :).
Did your overhauling work? Did your parts fit?
Did you buy parts like these: Manifolds R+L
The original tube fills more solid but it just a vent so long as it doesn’t become soft under heat you are fine. I am a DIYer. Only work on my cars.
No I paid half that price! (made an offer on This. ) used Land rover part number for the same engine. Seems this problem is more common there. The quality seemed good to me. It fits just like original one. The original one was welded using friction welding but this one was welded using ultrasonic. Not sure which one is better.

It took me much longer to fit them(16hours) including cleaning all the mess cause by previous intakes. I will upload some photos when I got time.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
22 Posts
Discussion Starter #14
Thank you! Pictures would be nice ;-). 16 hours?! Nice weekend but somehow satisfying ;-) ain't it? Have a nice sunday evening!
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
591 Posts
Thank you! Pictures would be nice ;-). 16 hours?! Nice weekend but somehow satisfying ;-) ain't it? Have a nice sunday evening!
Thank you. Same to you.
I started Friday afternoon so it was done by Saturday. It took 5hours to remove them with my basic tools, 5hours to clean the engine and 4 to put everything back. I didn’t want to drain coolant and remove egr because it’s easy for me to jack up the car. If I could it makes it much faster.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
22 Posts
Discussion Starter #16
It's a pity. Just received the answer, they won't ship to Germany :-(. And it is the same with all the other sellers that sell both parts for under 100 pounds. All registered in China with one address in UK. But hey, now I know that these parts fit and I have to pay 190 pounds for both from another seller in the UK that ship to Germany. The cheapest offer in Germany was 269 pounds for one part. So even if I have to pay twice as much as you, I still save 340 pounds. That will pay my mechanic :). The local Jag-dealer calculates 1800 pounds for one side including material and labor costs. That's interesting :).
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
591 Posts
It's a pity. Just received the answer, they won't ship to Germany :-(. And it is the same with all the other sellers that sell both parts for under 100 pounds. All registered in China with one address in UK. But hey, now I know that these parts fit and I have to pay 190 pounds for both from another seller in the UK that ship to Germany. The cheapest offer in Germany was 269 pounds for one part. So even if I have to pay twice as much as you, I still save 340 pounds. That will pay my mechanic :). The local Jag-dealer calculates 1800 pounds for one side including material and labor costs. That's interesting :).
I don’t mind receiving it and diverting it to you. Not sure if it would help you though in terms of time or cost.
alternatively try this. That’s where I got the idea that the parts is cheaper for Land rovers. You can switch between the seller countries to see which one is cheaper considering the shipping. I only used A-express few times and I didn’t have issue please use at your own risk(in terms of quality). However I noticed one of the sellers is from Germany but somehow cheapest option is in Czech. Not sure if the listing photo is accurate but it says 2yrs warranty while those on Bay have 1yr. See below:

181959
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
22 Posts
Discussion Starter #18
Thank you very much for your offer. I received a discount from the UK dealer and bought it yesterday for 185 pounds. I will wait till next week and try not drive until then :).
And if the parts fit, the deal was great for me. Each part in Germany costs about 269 pounds. o_O
Your tips helped a lot. So I am very confident that the parts will fit :).
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
22 Posts
Discussion Starter #20
Thanks. I follow :). Interesting. I will let you know and post some pictures after my exchange of the manifolds. I am really interested in these cracks, because I have a little knowledge about plastic injection moulding. Especially this GRP plastic. It is not the wrong material at all for such parts but if the reason is the welding seam..... I had trouble with welding of plastic parts over months, till the machinery worked right with the right parameters :-(.
 
1 - 20 of 31 Posts
Top