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That usually spells disaster....
 

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If you simply look at the history of JLR and indeed back to its BL days they have always been shy at giving the public what it wants with pretty much every single car they have made, their designers are crap. Their successes, apart from the early Jaguars have all been designed by other companies and heavily influenced by whatever company has come to the rescue. Without the support and designs of others JLR would be long dead. The problems are - they get a good design; the public buy it and it seems the mentality is don't fix what isn't broke - so they churn out the same vehicle until they can't sell them anymore and they have filled fields with brand new models no one wants - they are not an "Innovative" company.
The writing was on the wall regarding fossil fuels - and JLR built a new factory for the ingenium engine - you couldn't make it up.
Jaguar has no future, LR potentially does if it separates completely.

The boss going - personal reasons likely to be he doesn't want to shoulder the blame when it finally dies as a company.

Such a shame a marque like Jaguar will just be another name of ex auto makers consigned to the bin
 

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I'm fairly convinced that their past reputation for being unreliable has been their Achilles Heel. I still see it when a Jaguar is recommended to someone in the online forums often their first response is questioning the reliability.

Somehow Jaguar don't seem to get away with it like the German marques. Although on saying that, whilst my XF was more reliable than I thought it would be, it still had a fair few problems and the inherent design flaws (rear boot water ingress, front washer capillary action) would have been very expensive if I didn't know about them and deployed preventative fixes. Then there would have been the inevitable inlet manifolds and possibly the intercooler connection, turbo actuator, gear selector and maybe even the crankshaft. I kind of felt like I was just waiting for the next thing to go wrong or for when that morning would come when it wouldn't start. Still miss it though!
 

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I'm fairly convinced that their past reputation for being unreliable has been their Achilles Heel. I still see it when a Jaguar is recommended to someone in the online forums often their first response is questioning the reliability.

Somehow Jaguar don't seem to get away with it like the German marques. Although on saying that, whilst my XF was more reliable than I thought it would be, it still had a fair few problems and the inherent design flaws (rear boot water ingress, front washer capillary action) would have been very expensive if I didn't know about them and deployed preventative fixes. Then there would have been the inevitable inlet manifolds and possibly the intercooler connection, turbo actuator, gear selector and maybe even the crankshaft. I kind of felt like I was just waiting for the next thing to go wrong or for when that morning would come when it wouldn't start. Still miss it though!
I don't buy into that at all. Land Rover have an even worse reputation when it comes to reliability and they can't make them quick enough.
 

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And only the Lord knows why...............just goes to show how you can fool enough of the people all the time.
 

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My daughter has the Evoque - adores it, I did tell her when she said she wanted one to expect she will break down --- frequently - didn't deter her though, - and although it's had some issues, she just brings it to me to fix - so completely oblivious to the usual complications and disruption a break down presents. I've had to change two door locks to keep the central locking working and recently the Intercooler hose split - so DPF and restricted performance warnings. I even ordered the hose without looking at the car - what she described was enough for me to get the hose. bought online just £28 for a pattern part - If LR had it, it was going to be £434 job done and VAT inc. I think if you own a JLR product you have to be either wealthy to keep it on the road or adept at fixing things and sourcing pattern parts - which are in abundance, which means I can only conclude - LR have enough breakdowns to justify so many manufacturers making pattern parts.
 

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Serious question: Are there not BMW, Mercedes, Audi, etc. forums full of owners whining on about how awful their cars are? About how dreadful their dealerships are? It CANNOT be that Jags (and/or Land Rovers) are particularly unreliable and badly designed, surely??
(I particularly omitted names like Ford, Vauxhall, Tesla(!), Renault, etc as IMHO, they don't fall into the same "premium" catagory).
 

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...............(I particularly omitted names like Ford, Vauxhall, Tesla(!), Renault, etc as IMHO, they don't fall into the same "premium" catagory).
Nothing to do with the fact they're all more reliable than a Jaguar then? :D
 

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Nothing to do with the fact they're all more reliable than a Jaguar then? :D
I've said it once and I'll say it again, I know where I'd rather be sitting. And I've never once been left at the side of the road in the Jags I've owned. ;)
 
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Serious question: Are there not BMW, Mercedes, Audi, etc. forums full of owners whining on about how awful their cars are? About how dreadful their dealerships are? It CANNOT be that Jags (and/or Land Rovers) are particularly unreliable and badly designed, surely??
(I particularly omitted names like Ford, Vauxhall, Tesla(!), Renault, etc as IMHO, they don't fall into the same "premium" catagory).
Yep, that's what I see as well - but like I say the German manufacturers seem to get away with it. Maybe better marketing or fanboy loyalty? There was also a period of being able to lease the German stuff quite cheap, even the more powerful ones, so the roads felt flooded with them. I did and never cared about reliability as warranty was in place along with courtesy cars for when it did go in. Less than 3 years and the oil sump failed. The taillight was replaced three times due to water ingress as well.

But my XF was starting to make me nervous and I was very lucky not to be stranded in Arran when the alternator failed the next day upon returning and I managed to get it into the garage at work on what was left in the battery. Then the central locking thing happened after fitting the alternator. There was still that suspected crankshaft noise and I felt like I was just waiting for the inevitable.

In contrast and I'm gonna regret saying this (where's that wood....) my S4 has been very reliable and it's the same mileage as the XF. Two wheel speed sensors, a rear washer jet thingy all costing less than £60. Also a front bush, but that's it. I do wonder if it's down to it being made in only one factory so perhaps more QC or possibly workmanship pride? Although the pre face lift S4's did have trouble with the DSG mechatronic units, but a few revisions later and it was fixed.
 

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My daughter has the Evoque - adores it, I did tell her when she said she wanted one to expect she will break down --- frequently - didn't deter her though, - and although it's had some issues, she just brings it to me to fix - so completely oblivious to the usual complications and disruption a break down presents. I've had to change two door locks to keep the central locking working and recently the Intercooler hose split - so DPF and restricted performance warnings. I even ordered the hose without looking at the car - what she described was enough for me to get the hose. bought online just £28 for a pattern part - If LR had it, it was going to be £434 job done and VAT inc. I think if you own a JLR product you have to be either wealthy to keep it on the road or adept at fixing things and sourcing pattern parts - which are in abundance, which means I can only conclude - LR have enough breakdowns to justify so many manufacturers making pattern parts.
Transport Manager at work has a Defender and a Range Rover. The Defender is horrific and the amount of work done on it is incredible, but being a farmer as well it was the car to be seen with. Then there's his Range Rover and the money he has to spend on it is again crazy. He said that he knows there are not reliable so I asked why keep buying it and he said he doesn't care, that's all he'll drive - it's obviously an image thing. I don't have a problem with that and he's honest about it, but it does perhaps explain why people keep buying them.
 

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Most washing machines when they go wrong show a code on the display that can be looked up and the fault identified. Why not with cars. Some more coding, a one of cost and very very negligible in cost to install on a car during production and when something goes wrong with a car it could either display a code or even a description of what the fault is. But no, it needs to go in and connected to the dealers diagnostic equipment and they certainly know how to charge for that!

Having said that I got rid of my XFS due to the horror stories that I was reading although nothing went wrong with it. But I am planning to go back to an XF and having looked at some photos of the XFS I had even more convinced to go back and if it costs then so be it.
 

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As a family we've never bought Range Rovers because of the image or the brand that goes with them.

In 2008 during the recession my Dad bought a 2008 Range Rover TDV8 Vogue SE. He got a good deal on it and loved the car so bought it. Truth be told it spent most of the next 18 months in the garage as he felt uncomfortable driving a £75k car when he knew a lot of people were struggling. I thought he was mad but it's the way he was. That's when he bought a P38 Range Rover so he had something that would fly under the radar.

I like the Range Rover as they're the only car that can do what I want it to do as well as the Range Rover can. I can tow a 3500kg trailer on and off road without any issues, it'll get me in and out in the bad weather, it'll take me away for a weekend very comfortably or it'll take me on a 2 week holiday with the caravan without batting an eye lid at it and in my opinion they're the best looking of the 4x4's. As a family, we also like the fact that despite being owned by Tata, they're built in the UK.

Sure the BMW X5 can do some of it but last time it snowed when my brother in law was visiting in his X5 it struggled to get up the lane to the house. When The Best from the East hit in 2018, I had my Range Rover smashing through snow drifts higher then the bonnet to get to the farm. I had the air suspension on high and there were 3 grooves in the snow, one from the tyres on each side and one from the diff casing on the axle. After I'd smashed through each drift I had to get out to clear the bonnet so I could see where I was going. My folks were gobsmacked that the RR on road tyres made it. From experience and reading online, the competition just wouldn't have done it.

There are a number of people on the Range Rover forums who have got fed up with the RR and the problems they've had and moved to other marques. A large proportion of that number have come back to RR's as they reckon nothing comes close to a good, working Range Rover.

I'm an unusual type of RR owner as my Range Rovers do get used for what they were designed to do.

I've spent a LOT of time and money on my black one, to the point I could have easily bought one 5 years newer but I don't like throwing stuff away and I now know that I've got a properly sorted car from it.

My sister has a 2017 Evoque Autobiography, recently her turbo packed in. LR Assist recovered it from the motorway and got her home. They organised a courtesy car through Enterprise and for the 10 days her Evoque was off the road she had a BMW M240i. Every car manufacturer has issues these days and I think if you like a brand you will put up with a lot of them if they look after you well. The big thing with JLR seems to be to find a good indy and bin the dealer network.

The criteria for me buying my XFR was that it had to be a "Super Saloon" with a V8 and big performance. Sounds a simple task until the 2nd part of that criteria was that it "Wasn't to be German" as everyone goes German for a fast saloon. As I like JLR as a brand, there was only a couple of choices really!

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David.
 
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