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Yes that’s one of the main reasons. Assumption is everyone cleans it properly before putting on the new rotor.
You know what they say about assumption! Lol
 

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I’ve been thinking of getting it be of these to make doubly sure the hub face is clean. They seem hard to get hold of for a reasonable price though. Unsure about this website.



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Discussion Starter · #64 ·
I’ve been thinking of getting it be of these to make doubly sure the hub face is clean. They seem hard to get hold of for a reasonable price though. Unsure about this website.



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This will save a lot of time in cleaning hub surface
 

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Wouldn’t a flap wheel/ wire brush on a drill do the same thing though?
 

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Wouldn’t a flap wheel/ wire brush on a drill do the same thing though?
This is designed to get around the wheel studs much more easily.
 

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Yes, spotted it “fits over” the stud, but for the cost wondered if it was worthwhile.
 

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Discussion Starter · #68 ·
Wouldn’t a flap wheel/ wire brush on a drill do the same thing though?
it is not easy to get to areas around the base of studs with wire brush on drill but doable.
 

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Discussion Starter · #69 ·
There is a similar set of Laser tool for £11 on ebay.
 

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I use various versions of these, very handy to get into all those hard to reach areas. I have used non branded ones but they fall apart very quickly.

I've got branded ones which I used when doing my slide pins, alas the branded ones don't last long either.
 

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Mine had severe brake judder when I bought it, I say when I bought it, at the test drive.

It was replaced at the dealers with oem parts, and has been since and never had any issues.

Driven normally mostly, sometimes like it's been stolen.
 

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I'm not sure if it is entirely relevant, but my brakes have never juddered in 8+ years of ownership and many, many thousand kilometres, and after quite a few pad and disc replacements.

Living in a place where it rarely rains or where humidity rarely gets to anything vaguely damp or 'corrosive', all of my brake parts are in 'as new' condition, slider pins run smoothly, and mating surfaces are literally 'as new'. As a consequence of all this, I suspect that brake judder is caused by surfaces and other parts that have 'weathered' more than mine, which is hardly surprising since the UK is a lot wetter overall.

I'm currently running Red Stuff, and am very pleased with the performance, and lack of dust, BTW.
 

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I'm not sure if it is entirely relevant, but my brakes have never juddered in 8+ years of ownership and many, many thousand kilometres, and after quite a few pad and disc replacements.

Living in a place where it rarely rains or where humidity rarely gets to anything vaguely damp or 'corrosive', all of my brake parts are in 'as new' condition, slider pins run smoothly, and mating surfaces are literally 'as new'. As a consequence of all this, I suspect that brake judder is caused by surfaces and other parts that have 'weathered' more than mine, which is hardly surprising since the UK is a lot wetter overall.

I'm currently running Red Stuff, and am very pleased with the performance, and lack of dust, BTW.

I'm not so sure.

I live in Yorkshire, the roads are terrible, it's hilly so the brakes get used and abused often, the weather is often wet/damp and other than on the test drive, I've never had issues.
 

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I'm not sure if it is entirely relevant, but my brakes have never juddered in 8+ years of ownership and many, many thousand kilometres, and after quite a few pad and disc replacements.

Living in a place where it rarely rains or where humidity rarely gets to anything vaguely damp or 'corrosive', all of my brake parts are in 'as new' condition, slider pins run smoothly, and mating surfaces are literally 'as new'. As a consequence of all this, I suspect that brake judder is caused by surfaces and other parts that have 'weathered' more than mine, which is hardly surprising since the UK is a lot wetter overall.

I'm currently running Red Stuff, and am very pleased with the performance, and lack of dust, BTW.
Ivan, we should take pity on our UK brethren who are forced to endure cold damp miserable weather 95% of the time leading to rust, brake judder and all sorts of 'orrible problems, rather than rubbing their noses in it.
 

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Ivan, we should take pity on our UK brethren who are forced to endure cold damp miserable weather 95% of the time leading to rust, brake judder and all sorts of 'orrible problems, rather than rubbing their noses in it.
Nothing miserable about our climate, Kim. The varied weather is what gives the British Isles the most beautiful and varied landscapes in the world.
 
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Discussion Starter · #77 · (Edited)
Luckily today weather is nice here so we can return back to topic. I did some research again today and I am pretty much convinced that brake pads are the key here and everything is down to the brake pad transfer that everyone talks about. It has nothing to do with heat that could warp the disc but it could melt the resin in pads to accelerate the transfer. And that transfer is masking some areas of surface causing DTV over time. Now if you brakes just started to judder you can put it back right. Just use sand paper and lightly sand the surface or do some harsh brakes when discs are cool and drive long enough after that to let pads cool down. Similar to bed in but long time between each attempt.
if like me you had the judder for some time, due to weight of these cars you have pretty much cause DTV in the metal. The only options are skimming or replacing.
Now I would like to hear from you guys -specially those who did not have the problem- what type of pads you use. I never cared but JPEC clearly says use “Ceramic” pads only on high power output diesels and all S/C petrol 3.0 cars. My pads are Pagid. They are black like general OEM pads. Material also looks black as normal. I need to be able to read the code in order to tell if it is organic or ceramic. Was wondering if you guys know how to tell from look or if you know what you have on your cars.
to tie this to the topic, EPC red stuff is “ceramic” and Yellow stuff is organic. Also, it seems organics feels the best and are quiet while ceramics are more responsive due to being less compressible and produce much less dust. Having said that, it seems there are ceramic pads that feel like organic which are probably more expensive but temperature endurance is the key for brake judder.
Why this happens to Cars like Jags? First they are relatively heavy. Pads get hot easier which accelerates brake transfer and for the same reason, discs wear out easier means umasked areas are worn faster. In a light weight car you probably have several thousand miles from when brake transfer happen to take it off by hard brakes. Rear discs on my XF feel very uneven to touch but there was no run-out at all using a dial gauge that means brake transfer doesn’t happen on rear discs because they don’t get that hot.

p.s. just checked. Pagid sell their ceramic pads under “pagidracing” brand. So at-least mine is not ceramic as per JPEC it should be. Then checked brit-car for oem pads. They are labeled as “high performance ceramic pads”. So if you have a 355 or 385mm calliper in front please save your OEM pads. Don’t think they are cheap! They are 4times more expensive than organic after market ones but they last much longer.
However Brit-car and Allmakes4x4 list two set of pads that are cheap and labeled to be ceramic. One is Mintex and other one Delphi. I have bought many genuine parts from both suppliers. Their customer service confirmed they are ceramic pads (no typo) and price is a quarter. Any one tried these? Delphi or Mintex
 

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Like Phil1 who lives near me I don't get the problems, may be it is the pads which are damp most of the time.
 

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Discussion Starter · #79 ·
Like Phil1 who lives near me I don't get the problems, may be it is the pads which are damp most of the time.
It could be dampness make pad transfer easier. It seems Mintex do ceramic pads for Jag. Do you feel brake being a bit sharper or pedal being more firm when you switched to Mintex pads?
 

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It could be dampness make pad transfer easier. It seems Mintex do ceramic pads for Jag. Do you feel brake being a bit sharper or pedal being more firm when you switched to Mintex pads?
It could be dampness make pad transfer easier. It seems Mintex do ceramic pads for Jag. Do you feel brake being a bit sharper or pedal being more firm when you switched to Mintex pads?
I am not really sure Hamed. As I have not had the problem, I have not been concentrating on it. My brakes work fantastically, the best I have had on any car I have had or driven. When I bought the car almost two years ago the front discs and pads were new. But when I put it on the two post I noticed that whoever had changed the discs and pads had not fitted the rubber bungs back on the slider pins. I thought whoever did that was not an engineer, so I looked more closely. I noticed that the inner pads were above the outer edge of the disc and wearing at the inner more than the outer.
I stripped the thing to see why. The spring clip on the inner pad was forcing the top of the pad to jam against the caliper.
I decided to resurface the pads on my linishing machine and machine up the shape of the pads to fit the caliper correctly, rounding off the sharp edges as I went along, I also made sure the caliper was cleaned and smooth on the pad sliding surface then painted them. I have the pads within 1mm of the outer surface of the disc after machining.I have no idea of the make of the pads on the front but the disc is a Borge and Beck plated one. The pads were obviously the wrong ones but as new, apart from the slight wear on the inner pad. Most people would have changed them but as I have the equipment I re machined them. As you know I do all my own servicing as you do, I think a major part of a service A or B should be to remove the pads and clean the calipers which I always do. I don't grease the slider pins but always put a bit of petroleum jelly on the rubber bushes.
I hope this helps you with your investigations.
 
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