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Discussion Starter #21
I'm surprised they took on the work to replace a gearbox of a "modern" car without knowledge of the work required, nor the specialist electronic diagnostic/programming equipment that modern cars demand. Ask them for their adjusted invoice, and go from there, but don't immediately pay it, consider or query it first. I also suspect, though there's no proof, that a replacement gearbox may not even have been required. Fitting such a unit also needs specialist transmission knowledge to even fill it with fluid, I'd suspect they may not have done this even.
They asked me for £850...
 

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Do they still have the original gearbox?
I ask because I've never heard or read of a ZF gearbox failing to the extent that it needed replacing. Is it the same garage that has done the swap and now can't reprogram the car that said it needed a new one?
(forgive me if this has been discussed and answered)
 

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Discussion Starter #23
Do they still have the original gearbox?
I ask because I've never heard or read of a ZF gearbox failing to the extent that it needed replacing. Is it the same garage that has done the swap and now can't reprogram the car that said it needed a new one?
(forgive me if this has been discussed and answered)
Yes, they should still have the original one as They never asked me what to do with it.
I am currently fighting about the invoice received and to get the faulty codes from the diagnostics.
 

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Discussion Starter #24
Yes, they should still have the original one as they never asked me what to do with it.
I am currently fighting about the invoice received and to get the faulty codes from the diagnostics.
And yes, same garage. Sorry, forgot to confirm it in my earlier message.
 

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Discussion Starter #25
UPDATE:
So, instead of £900 they want to be paid £850, even if nothing has been fixed.

I spoke with the responsible and he got back to me saying that "[his colleagues] have assured me that you were told that a second hand gear box might not be able to be programmed. They told you to either put in a new one or source a reconditioned one." and in the description of the invoice they stated: "Fit second hand gearbox but cannot program as customer was made aware that second hand gear boxes cannot be re programmed but a reconditioned one can."

The above are false, as after the diagnostics (which took 10 days, just to be clear) they offered me 2 options: a reconditioned gearbox or a second hand gearbox. If they would have told me that a second hand gearbox could not be programmed, I don't see why I would have still decided to get one (unfortunately I don't have money to throw!), and why on earth they make me buy one, ship to their address, and finally fit it??

Today on the phone they told me that they don't have the software the gearbox seller mentioned (SDD 1.3.0 or SSD 1.3.1) and in a later email they state: "I have spoken to our specialist in regards to your vehicle. We have used both programmes to try and programme your vehicle. Unfortunately, the reason why the vehicle cannot be programmed is because it is programmed to another chassis number. This means the control module needs to be wiped clear. We are more than welcome to help you find a solution to where this can be done or if we can do it ourselves ". My question is: why did they commit to take my car (and to make me buy another gearbox) if already aware they would have not been able to program it? I am not a car expert at all, but that a used gearbox would have a different VIN is quite obvious to me.
And what solutions are they talking about? The solution would have been to get the car fixed after about 1 month. "if they can do it themselves", it should have been done it already!

Obviously i called them and argued about the invoice and also sent an email with all my points.

Ah, I am still waiting for the faulty codes... I spoke with a couple of Jaguar specialists but in order to agree if to take the job on want to know what the issue was.

What a tragedy guys...
 

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I so feel for you Ron. Through no fault of your own, you now have a car in a worst state than it was. The garage has the upper hand as they have your car, unless the loan car you currently have from them is worth more? It was this reason I said not to return their loan car. I fear they will not release your car until you pay their invoice. However, they may also try to add additional daily storage charges if the invoice remains unpaid. They clearly have not be straight with you, changing their history of events and their account. I'd suggest you offer to pay half their invoice, £450 for release of the car, the old gearbox and a list of the original stored DTCs, with the caveat you will take no further action against them. I get the impression they don't have the error codes, but you should continue to request them. They should also state in writing what conclusions made them decide a replacement gearbox was required. Even £450 is too much however it's likely the only option you'll have for the return of your car. The only other option is through the courts. Small Claims Court has a limit of £10,000, can be started on-line, but a CCG in your favour won't be any more than a piece of paper and likely takes several months. After the CCG, you need to escalate to enforcement and ultimately the High Court and bailiffs to collect the debt, all of which will take years as there's a massive backlog of actions due to covid. You could engage a solicitor to write on your behalf, which would have the effect of appearing more serious but each letter or email will cost approximately £30 to £50. Whatever you decide to do, unfortunately, you're losing out.
 

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You could engage a solicitor to write on your behalf, which would have the effect of appearing more serious but each letter or email will cost approximately £30 to £50. Whatever you decide to do, unfortunately, you're losing out.
If you have Motor Legal Cover on your car insurance it would be worth talking to them for advice.
 

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UPDATE:
So, instead of £900 they want to be paid £850, even if nothing has been fixed.

I spoke with the responsible and he got back to me saying that "[his colleagues] have assured me that you were told that a second hand gear box might not be able to be programmed. They told you to either put in a new one or source a reconditioned one." and in the description of the invoice they stated: "Fit second hand gearbox but cannot program as customer was made aware that second hand gear boxes cannot be re programmed but a reconditioned one can."

The above are false, as after the diagnostics (which took 10 days, just to be clear) they offered me 2 options: a reconditioned gearbox or a second hand gearbox. If they would have told me that a second hand gearbox could not be programmed, I don't see why I would have still decided to get one (unfortunately I don't have money to throw!), and why on earth they make me buy one, ship to their address, and finally fit it??

Today on the phone they told me that they don't have the software the gearbox seller mentioned (SDD 1.3.0 or SSD 1.3.1) and in a later email they state: "I have spoken to our specialist in regards to your vehicle. We have used both programmes to try and programme your vehicle. Unfortunately, the reason why the vehicle cannot be programmed is because it is programmed to another chassis number. This means the control module needs to be wiped clear. We are more than welcome to help you find a solution to where this can be done or if we can do it ourselves ". My question is: why did they commit to take my car (and to make me buy another gearbox) if already aware they would have not been able to program it? I am not a car expert at all, but that a used gearbox would have a different VIN is quite obvious to me.
And what solutions are they talking about? The solution would have been to get the car fixed after about 1 month. "if they can do it themselves", it should have been done it already!

Obviously i called them and argued about the invoice and also sent an email with all my points.

Ah, I am still waiting for the faulty codes... I spoke with a couple of Jaguar specialists but in order to agree if to take the job on want to know what the issue was.

What a tragedy guys...
Awful situation. As well as other suggestions, would your boroughs trading standards help you? Or citizens advice. Both have the advantage of being free... .
 

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It doesn't make much sense to offer you an option in which they allegedly "knew" that they wouldn't be get the car on the road again.

Why on earth didn't they offer you the third and most obvious option of getting the box refurbished??
 

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I'm not even convinced that this is a gearbox issue & worry that whatever caused the RP might still be unresolved.

A call to trading standards might be worthwhile both for advice & possibly arbitration. Do you have any legal cover with your car or breakdown insurance?
 
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Discussion Starter #31
I so feel for you Ron. Through no fault of your own, you now have a car in a worst state than it was. The garage has the upper hand as they have your car, unless the loan car you currently have from them is worth more? It was this reason I said not to return their loan car. I fear they will not release your car until you pay their invoice. However, they may also try to add additional daily storage charges if the invoice remains unpaid. They clearly have not be straight with you, changing their history of events and their account. I'd suggest you offer to pay half their invoice, £450 for release of the car, the old gearbox and a list of the original stored DTCs, with the caveat you will take no further action against them. I get the impression they don't have the error codes, but you should continue to request them. They should also state in writing what conclusions made them decide a replacement gearbox was required. Even £450 is too much however it's likely the only option you'll have for the return of your car. The only other option is through the courts. Small Claims Court has a limit of £10,000, can be started on-line, but a CCG in your favour won't be any more than a piece of paper and likely takes several months. After the CCG, you need to escalate to enforcement and ultimately the High Court and bailiffs to collect the debt, all of which will take years as there's a massive backlog of actions due to covid. You could engage a solicitor to write on your behalf, which would have the effect of appearing more serious but each letter or email will cost approximately £30 to £50. Whatever you decide to do, unfortunately, you're losing out.
Thank you. Will wait for them to reply to the email I sent yesterday, and will try to calm down and to reach a solution. Taking them to courts is the last thing I'd like to do, so I would rather pay 2-300£ and get out of this situation. Assuming I'll find someone that is willing to put their hands on the car now.
 

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Discussion Starter #32
If you have Motor Legal Cover on your car insurance it would be worth talking to them for advice.
I just checked, and yes, I have this cover! Will get in touch today!
 
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Discussion Starter #33
Awful situation. As well as other suggestions, would your boroughs trading standards help you? Or citizens advice. Both have the advantage of being free... .
Will try with the Motor Legal Protection first, and probably will give a go to the trading standards as well...
 

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Discussion Starter #34
It doesn't make much sense to offer you an option in which they allegedly "knew" that they wouldn't be get the car on the road again.

Why on earth didn't they offer you the third and most obvious option of getting the box refurbished??
That's my point! in the invoice they stated that they confirmed with me that a second had gearbox would not work (which, I repeat, it is not the case, otherwise I wouldn't have bought it!), so why would they commit to fit it if already aware it won't work??
 

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Discussion Starter #35
I'm not even convinced that this is a gearbox issue & worry that whatever caused the RP might still be unresolved.

A call to trading standards might be worthwhile both for advice & possibly arbitration. Do you have any legal cover with your car or breakdown insurance?
Hi, this is my concern too at this stage. So I spent also £££ for a different gearbox. I do have Motor Legal Protection, will try to get in touch with them as well.
 

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Discussion Starter #36
UPDATE:

After several emails, they still want me to pay in full the invoice and I still don't have the DTCs or any conclusions that led them to decide a gearbox replacement was needed.

I managed to speak with a specialist willing to look at the problem and try to program everything, and if the programming won't work we will need to recondition the original gearbox (around £3600) and see if it fixes the issue.
They want to know as much as possible about the original fault, and asked me to put them directly in touch with the current garage if possible, as they mentioned it could have been something electrical not related to the gearbox, so it would need extra money to fix (on top of the reconditioned gearbox..) if that would be the case.

I am afraid I will get spending more money than the actual value of the car.
 

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I feel for you, Ron.
Consider this: Tell the garage that unless they provide the evidence that caused them to recommend a new gearbox. And the evidence that they told you that once fitted they wouldn't be able make it work, you will, "reluctantly" be forced to take legal advice.
Making a claim in the Small Claims court is very easy.
 

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Discussion Starter #38
I feel for you, Ron.
Consider this: Tell the garage that unless they provide the evidence that caused them to recommend a new gearbox. And the evidence that they told you that once fitted they wouldn't be able make it work, you will, "reluctantly" be forced to take legal advice.
Making a claim in the Small Claims court is very easy.
Thank you John. I have already mentioned this, and their reply has been: "We are also waiting to hear back from our legal representatives in regards to this matter."

However, at the end I believe I will need to pay for their invoice in order to release the car...
But if the Jag specialists will find out that the gearbox was not the issue, I am also considering to ask for the money I will spend to recondition the original one...

In honesty, for a Jaguar XF 2012, is it worth spending £4,000+ to fix it?
 

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Ron this makes very dismal reading, I hope you come out of it well, but it looks like you are in for a big loss whatever the outcome. I really sympathies with you.
 

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That's my point! in the invoice they stated that they confirmed with me that a second had gearbox would not work (which, I repeat, it is not the case, otherwise I wouldn't have bought it!), so why would they commit to fit it if already aware it won't work??
Didn't they reduce the price by £50 because they now aren't programming it?
 
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