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Discussion Starter · #61 ·
I popped in to see Kenneth Brown Engineers today and he had a listen. He said it's not crankshaft related and pretty certain it's the lifters. It could possibly be due to the Mahle oil filters not being the correct filtration / flow or poor maintenance in the past. Full Jaguar service history when I bought it so that's probably it lol

I've just fitted a genuine oil filter and it's actually a little bit quieter, but will need to see after a blast. Final course of action will be a flush when I next do the oil and I'll be sticking with genuine filters now.

A little relieved though. Been giving her some internal tlc recently so glad it's not wasted time.
 

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What oil filter did you take out (and how long had it been in there)?

Edit: just re-read that you’ve used Mahle before.
 

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Discussion Starter · #63 ·
Only in for about a week when I did the oil change last Friday I think it was.
 

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I popped in to see Kenneth Brown Engineers today and he had a listen. He said it's not crankshaft related and pretty certain it's the lifters. It could possibly be due to the Mahle oil filters not being the correct filtration / flow or poor maintenance in the past. Full Jaguar service history when I bought it so that's probably it lol

I've just fitted a genuine oil filter and it's actually a little bit quieter, but will need to see after a blast. Final course of action will be a flush when I next do the oil and I'll be sticking with genuine filters now.

A little relieved though. Been giving her some internal tlc recently so glad it's not wasted time.
All good then!
 

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Discussion Starter · #65 ·
All good then!
I'm hoping so. I've been sitting here for about 10 minutes idling waiting to pick up my son and the noise has started to come and go, which is giving me some hope that this might actually improve. I'm not holding my breath.

Incidentally, whilst chatting earlier he said he was helping a guy out with a case against Jaguar where his F-Type engine has turned into a paperweight. First thing I asked was if it was the chain tensioner and he said yes. Jaguar is trying to claim driver abuse?

Apparently his last three cars before this were also Jaguar ones, but that's him done with them because of their customer service.

Colleague at work has just bought a 2012 XJ and it's stunning. Very tempted lol
 

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Discussion Starter · #66 ·
I've noticed that the noise doesn't occur up until the engine sump oil is 40 degrees C, but the moment it hits 41 it suddenly appears. I'm not sure if that means anything.

Also, after a long blast and the car did a regen, I sat idling letting the exhausts cool down and the noise disappeared. It was still there but very faint. Eventually it stated to come back a little bit but not much.
 

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I've noticed that the noise doesn't occur up until the engine sump oil is 40 degrees C, but the moment it hits 41 it suddenly appears. I'm not sure if that means anything.

Also, after a long blast and the car did a regen, I sat idling letting the exhausts cool down and the noise disappeared. It was still there but very faint. Eventually it stated to come back a little bit but not much.
Have you considered it could be air/fuel mix ratio which is changing, I can't believe 1 degree C would change the oil viscosity to a level which would cause that noise, but after a blast and regen it would have changed the air/fuel mix, also the engine sensors are very temp critical well within 1 degree. Changes in air/fuel mix will make big noise changes, pinking on a petrol sounds like a piston hitting a valve for example.
 

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Discussion Starter · #68 ·
Have you considered it could be air/fuel mix ratio which is changing, I can't believe 1 degree C would change the oil viscosity to a level which would cause that noise, but after a blast and regen it would have changed the air/fuel mix, also the engine sensors are very temp critical well within 1 degree. Changes in air/fuel mix will make big noise changes, pinking on a petrol sounds like a piston hitting a valve for example.
I was wondering if it was something to do with the ecu changing things like that which would explain why it's worse after a blast. I forgot to update that yesterday it kicked in (although not loud) at 34 degrees C so that puts a spanner in the works re. temp.

I've been running another tin of lifter treatment since the last oil change and will be flushing and changing the oil tomorrow. It's a solvent free flush and after this it'll only be oil going in from now on. I'm also going to pump and then check the sump plug as well just in case.

If it doesn't get any better I'll just grin and bare it until something else comes up to buy. I'm just not sure what my next car will be. I love Jaguar cars but feel let down by their customer service and have no faith in them for the future. Plus it's annoying the restrictive choice of engines in Sportbrakes.
 
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Lifters are passive but many things change at idle by ECM base the variables like temperature. EGR are more open when engine is cold to help buildup the temp, every 3min the MAP increases about 0.5bar and a vacuum solenoid will operate to spin secondary turbo for lubrication. Fuel is cold and return fuel will be diverted to the filter to warm it up. Injectors spray differently. Transmission will change differently and torque converter will not lock if it’s cold, etc.
to wrap up, you don’t have this noise until engine gets to 40C roughly? Also when you push car harder it will be loude?
 

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I see your point Graham, to be honest I have never had a Jag apart from my MK2 3.8 which I used for an every day car. All of them have been for pleasure and to polish and be proud of. You need something else more reliable and cheaper to maintain. Before this XF I have now, my last 4 cars/vans have been brand new and Ford. two transits and 2 Mondeo's. I still have a mondeo I bought new in 2004, It still runs fine and will tow my caravan. The jag is for fun.
 

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Discussion Starter · #71 ·
Lifters are passive but many things change at idle by ECM base the variables like temperature. EGR are more open when engine is cold to help buildup the temp, every 3min the MAP increases about 0.5bar and a vacuum solenoid will operate to spin secondary turbo for lubrication. Fuel is cold and return fuel will be diverted to the filter to warm it up. Injectors spray differently. Transmission will change differently and torque converter will not lock if it’s cold, etc.
to wrap up, you don’t have this noise until engine gets to 40C roughly? Also when you push car harder it will be loude?
It doesn't seem to be so temperature specific now, but merely as the engine warms the noise presents itself and gradually gets louder. I wish it were the other way around as it would be more in keeping of a sticking lifter.

After a hard thrashing it is at its loudest, but after idling for about 5 minutes it starts to come and go. There's still a chance it may not even be a lifter, but when you take the engine cover off it does sound like it's coming from the left inlet manifold area and I think I remember feeling it here in sync with the sound, but I would have to revisit that.
 

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Discussion Starter · #72 ·
I see your point Graham, to be honest I have never had a Jag apart from my MK2 3.8 which I used for an every day car. All of them have been for pleasure and to polish and be proud of. You need something else more reliable and cheaper to maintain. Before this XF I have now, my last 4 cars/vans have been brand new and Ford. two transits and 2 Mondeo's. I still have a mondeo I bought new in 2004, It still runs fine and will tow my caravan. The jag is for fun.
Aye, I'm a little stuck with this decision. Has to be petrol or hybrid petrol. There's no huge rush at the moment.

A Ford ST Estate crossed my mind as it's got some poke but the dash puts me off and would probably feel like a big downgrade, plus it feels like most of the things which go wrong in the Jag are FoMoCo parts and chances are an ST will have been thrashed.

The Volvo V90 was another optionn but I would need to drive one. There's also the Golf R estate which keeps catching my eye, although probably thrashed as well.

Finally the x260 estate, but I'm not convinced and alas only 4 cylinder. A 3.0 petrol s/c x250 Sportbrake is the answer but for some asinine reason we don't get access to the full range. F-Pace maybe, but feels a little overpriced at the moment. I'm also a little tired of the inherent design flaws with Jaguar but more so Jaguar's lack of accountability. I suppose all the brands have their issues, but I expected more from Jaguar.

Another sticking point is that I'm reluctant to pour money into buying a car as I feel they are not very good value these days. I'm sometimes tempted to just get another 2.4 Accord but in Estate 8th gen (rare). It may not be the most interesting of cars but it was pretty much bombproof and reasonable performance.

Bloody Jaguar ... they you in a position metaphorically equivalent to hypergamy.
 
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