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Discussion Starter · #1 · (Edited)
There's a noise from my engine which has always been there, I mind posting a video of it perhaps two years ago not long after I got the car. I ended up deciding it was just the design of this diesel engine (facelift 3.0d v6). But recently it's got louder and I'm not sure if it is something of concern. I change the oil and filter every six months with good quality oil and I only use BP Ultimate.

It is most obvious when sitting idling and there's an object to the side of me or when cruising at low speed because the revs are pretty much ticking over.

If I've been driving a little spirited then it's much worse when I return to low speeds and almost sounds like big ends (although not as loud) as it increases with the revs. It's hard to film this though.

In the video below I can hear the typical diesel engine sound which I'm fine with, but it's that additional repetitive dunk dunk dunk dunk noise which is much slower and it will increase with revs until about 1300rpm+ where it either goes away or the engine is too loud to hear it.

It goes away at 10 seconds as I rev it up, but then at 13/14 seconds when the revs have dropped you can hear it return quite clearly.

Could this be crank related or is it just noisy injectors or something?


EDIT: Updated videos:

Cold
Warm
 

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There's a noise from my engine which has always been there, I mind posting a video of it perhaps two years ago not long after I got the car. I ended up deciding it was just the design of this diesel engine (facelift 3.0d v6). But recently it's got louder and I'm not sure if it is something of concern. I change the oil and filter every six months with good quality oil and I only use BP Ultimate.

It is most obvious when sitting idling and there's an object to the side of me or when cruising at low speed because the revs are pretty much ticking over.

If I've been driving a little spirited then it's much worse when I return to low speeds and almost sounds like big ends (although not as loud) as it increases with the revs. It's hard to film this though.

In the video below I can hear the typical diesel engine sound which I'm fine with, but it's that additional repetitive dunk dunk dunk dunk noise which is much slower and it will increase with revs until about 1300rpm+ where it either goes away or the engine is too loud to hear it.

It goes away at 10 seconds as I rev it up, but then at 13/14 seconds when the revs have dropped you can hear it return quite clearly.

Could this be crank related or is it just noisy injectors or something?

my estimation is that noise happens at about 800 times per min. I doubt it has anything to do with conrod bearing. It should be double that if it is from conrod. Mine does the same specially if engine is cold. It’s barely noticeable when fully warmed up. I have to say it worries me as well but I will report back when I next change the oil in about 2k. I have installed magnetic sump plug to catch any shavings.
I think once I conclude it was from LH fuel rail. There is a pressure regulator valve that is spring loaded. I used a long screw driver on that fuel rail and the noise was from that. It’s very easy to reach.
I still have the video of idle with a failed conrod bearing sent to me by previous owner if that helps.
 

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Discussion Starter · #3 ·
my estimation is that noise happens at about 800 times per min. I thought it is anything to do with conrod bearing. It should be double that if it is from conrod. Mine does the same specially if engine is cold. It’s barely noticeable when fully warmed up. I have to say it worries me as well but I will report back when I next change the oil in about 2k. I have installed magnetic sump plug to catch any shavings.
I think once I conclude it was from LH fuel rail. There is a pressure regulator valve that is spring loaded. I used a long screw driver on that fuel rail and the noise was from that. It’s very easy to reach.
I still have the video of idle with a failed conrod bearing sent to me by previous owner if that helps.
Cheers, mine is worse after the engine is hot bringing my first thoughts to something related to the oil being thinner? I'm very reluctant to mess about with the oil in this car such as any of those 3rd party treatments or trying something like C4 which is also low ash but I believe has a higher sheer/tear strength. I only just changed the oil last month.

I'm getting no codes and performance is solid, but the noise doesn't seem natural to me.
 

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Cheers, mine is worse after the engine is hot bringing my first thoughts to something related to the oil being thinner? I'm very reluctant to mess about with the oil in this car such as any of those 3rd party treatments or trying something like C4 which is also low ash but I believe has a higher sheer/tear strength. I only just changed the oil last month.

I'm getting no codes and performance is solid, but the noise doesn't seem natural to me.
I have convinced myself it is normal. It’s my first diesel so there are a lot of noises that doesn’t seem normal to me. Recommended soot rating for oil is C1. But I think using C3/C4 should make it a little less noisy.
C4 is similar to C3.
tear apart the oil filter that have taken out recently if you still have it and use magnet see how much metal you will pickup. If there is not much I would ignore the noise considering you know the history.
also check the covers and heat shields, etc for any rattle.
 

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Sometimes Graham I am glad my ears ain't as good as they were. If you don't hear it it ain't there. Same with my hi fi. I have spent loads of time over the years chasing problems I thought were there because I heard something I could not relate to. You always think something is wrong when you hear a noise which you think should not be there.Sometimes it really is a good idea to check things when hearing a noise but you have already done that
 

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Discussion Starter · #6 ·
Cool, cheers all. If it starts to make the noise right up the revs then I'll get worried, until then I'll chalk it up to engine characteristic. I'll maybe try C4 next time and keep a very close eye on the MAP sensor.
 

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Discussion Starter · #7 ·
Jeez, why does it sound so much worse after a bit of spirited driving. This is going to bug me.
 

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Jeez, why does it sound so much worse after a bit of spirited driving. This is going to bug me.
See full half. Noise from anything major won’t change that fast. Since you have changed the oil recently, are you confident about oil grade, volume and oil filter? These could affect oil pressure that is passively controlling lifters. Maybe one is stuck at a high piston?
 

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Discussion Starter · #9 · (Edited)
See full half. Noise from anything major won’t change that fast. Since you have changed the oil recently, are you confident about oil grade, volume and oil filter? These could affect oil pressure that is passively controlling lifters. Maybe one is stuck at a high piston?
I usually like Motul 8100 C1 but the price has gone up to over £100 which is a lot when I'm doing it every six months, so this time I went with Millers Trident C1 which I would hope is still good oil. It's always a Mahle oil filter which goes in and I get the old contact cleaner spray on the MAP sensor at the same time.

One thing I'm wondering is that the icarsoft CR2.0 I have does have an issue with the DPF regen, but it's just the soot level display is wrong - probably due to their formula being incorrect. The regen still works but then how do I know it is stopping the regen safely and could it be flooding my oil with diesel? I'm still liaising with them and sending data to help them resolve the strange soot level display.

I came across this video (below) which seems to have a similar noise and many are saying the timing belt is too tight. I have had my timing belt done not so long ago and I remember straight after if accelerating hard it would whine - I mind joking about it sounding like a supercharger whine. Could it be possible my timing belt is too tight? If so can this cause damage?



Whilst this may be the facelift, this is what I would expect my engine to sound like. The more I compare to my video, the more it sounds like something isn't right.



You can hear the noise in this video, but it is far quieter and only just audible but the rhythm is the same:

 

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I usually like Motul 8100 C1 but the price has gone up to over £100 which is a lot when I'm doing it every six months, so this time I went with Millers Trident C1 which I would hope is still good oil. It's always a Mahle oil filter which goes in and I get the old contact cleaner spray on the MAP sensor at the same time.

One thing I'm wondering is that the icarsoft CR2.0 I have does have an issue with the DPF regen, but it's just the soot level display is wrong - probably due to their formula being incorrect. The regen still works but then how do I know it is stopping the regen safely and could it be flooding my oil with diesel? I'm still liaising with them and sending data to help them resolve the strange soot level display.

I came across this video (below) which seems to have a similar noise and many are saying the timing belt is too tight. I have had my timing belt done not so long ago and I remember straight after if accelerating hard it would whine - I mind joking about it sounding like a supercharger whine. Could it be possible my timing belt is too tight? If so can this cause damage?



Whilst this may be the facelift, this is what I would expect my engine to sound like. The more I compare to my video, the more it sounds like something isn't right.



You can hear the noise in this video, but it is far quieter and only just audible but the rhythm is the same:

I cannot hear anything abnormal in first video other than failed cam-belt or drive belt bearing.
Second video. I think your engine sounds better. Third one, again normal. All I can hear is injectors sound plus the noise I mentioned earlier re fuel rail pressure regulator.
listening to your original video again with headphones on, I hear something like a loose heat shield under the car. Please take a video with bonnet open and I have two videos for comparison.
first one was sent to me by previous owner after car sat for several months. It’s sound of con-rod scoring the backside of bearing that was stuck to crankshaft. You will see how distinctive the noise is.
Second one was taken for a noise under load but you could still hear sound at idle. The fuel rail pressure regulator noise could be heard after 00:10 when I move to LH. It almost sounds like camshaft noise but I confirmed it using a screw driver.

 

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Discussion Starter · #11 ·
Cheers for the videos, the first video sounds different to mine thankfully! In the second one I can hear a similar noise in the background, but not the main noise which the video is about - which actually sounds quite similar to the noise my CRV made due to the turbo shaft being coked up.

You mentioned the lifters earlier and the mechanic at work suspects them as well. At first I didn't think it sounded "tappety" enough but the more I listen to it and compare to other cars with tappet noise I think it could be worth starting here and going through a process of elimination. I'm going to try some lifter treatment, but as it has cleaner in it I'm going to do another oil and filter change afterwards.

If that doesn't work then I may look at the viscosity treatment just in case the oil is getting too thin, but I'll have to keep a close eye on that MAP sensor and DPF soot readings.
 

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Cheers for the videos, the first video sounds different to mine thankfully! In the second one I can hear a similar noise in the background, but not the main noise which the video is about - which actually sounds quite similar to the noise my CRV made due to the turbo shaft being coked up.

You mentioned the lifters earlier and the mechanic at work suspects them as well. At first I didn't think it sounded "tappety" enough but the more I listen to it and compare to other cars with tappet noise I think it could be worth starting here and going through a process of elimination. I'm going to try some lifter treatment, but as it has cleaner in it I'm going to do another oil and filter change afterwards.

If that doesn't work then I may look at the viscosity treatment just in case the oil is getting too thin, but I'll have to keep a close eye on that MAP sensor and DPF soot readings.
Yes in the second video, I was actually meaning that background noise. Most of it is the pressure regulator I mentioned. For tappets noise, you could compare that to the noise from cold start for about 5-10secs before oil pressure builds up. There are some expensive oil treatment products for tappet noise. I didn’t bother to try them but on these engines their operation is passive and directly connected to oil pressure (i.e. viscosity, quality, oil filter, etc.)
It doesn’t mean tappets are failing. So long as few of them behave differently, the noise will stand out.
a similar noise could be cause by injectors as well. I would try some premium diesel or additive for injectors. All these you could diagnose with a screw driver put on your ear.
 

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Discussion Starter · #13 ·
Yes in the second video, I was actually meaning that background noise. Most of it is the pressure regulator I mentioned. For tappets noise, you could compare that to the noise from cold start for about 5-10secs before oil pressure builds up. There are some expensive oil treatment products for tappet noise. I didn’t bother to try them but on these engines their operation is passive and directly connected to oil pressure (i.e. viscosity, quality, oil filter, etc.)
It doesn’t mean tappets are failing. So long as few of them behave differently, the noise will stand out.
a similar noise could be cause by injectors as well. I would try some premium diesel or additive for injectors. All these you could diagnose with a screw driver put on your ear.
Thanks. I use Archoil AR6400-D Max at regular intervals primarily to keep my soot levels down and only BP Ultimate goes in the tank. Along with my 6 month oil and filter changes I don't think there is much more I can do then with my routine maintenance.

I've popped a can of that Wynns hydraulic valve lifter treatment in as it says it's suitable for low saps and I will see how things seem after a few days of driving. I only fill my oil to halfway between the (digital) marker so there should be some headroom left for this treatment without taking my oil level too high.

Failing this, I'll try the Liqui Moly viscosity treatment and keep an eye on things. I'm reluctant to try MOS2 or Ceratec until I know more about them.
 

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Discussion Starter · #14 · (Edited)
Something I forgot to mention, it's not something I'm particularly keen on but I'm wondering if an engine flush might be worth a try? I'd only be idling for ten minutes though.

Edit: scrap that thought, I'm sure regen dilution provides more than enough cleaning! Lol

I'm almost 100% sure it's the lifters. Been listening out and the same noise happens for the first second when starting the car.
 

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Something I forgot to mention, it's not something I'm particularly keen on but I'm wondering if an engine flush might be worth a try? I'd only be idling for ten minutes though.

Edit: scrap that thought, I'm sure regen dilution provides more than enough cleaning! Lol

I'm almost 100% sure it's the lifters. Been listening out and the same noise happens for the first second when starting the car.
Engine flushing with cheap oil is fine but detergent no. I tried on another car car started to loose oil. It was idling for about 5mins. It could damage seals.
I did test and changed few lifter during my rebuild. It has two upper and lower parts with a check valve letting oil in. If check valve stuck close, you shouldn’t hear something abnormal. They just lift up earlier when oil pressure increases. If check valve fails or stuck open, you should be fine at high oil pressures but at idle, the will up and down half completely collapses and you either hear they touch one another or the gap between cam and lash leaves the lash rattling.
out of 24 on RH bank, I had 3 which even after cleaning couldn’t hold the oil and I could collapse them all the way down even by hand. So if lifter valve has failed mechanically, i.e. spring breaks or ball distorted. There is no cure other than replacement. However a thicker oil could help with the noise. Any other thing could be sorted with detergents, changing oil or driving harder. If it’s not a mechanical failure it will correct itself by driving the car more often.
 

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Discussion Starter · #16 ·
Engine flushing with cheap oil is fine but detergent no. I tried on another car car started to loose oil. It was idling for about 5mins. It could damage seals.
I did test and changed few lifter during my rebuild. It has two upper and lower parts with a check valve letting oil in. If check valve stuck close, you shouldn’t hear something abnormal. They just lift up earlier when oil pressure increases. If check valve fails or stuck open, you should be fine at high oil pressures but at idle, the will up and down half completely collapses and you either hear they touch one another or the gap between cam and lash leaves the lash rattling.
out of 24 on RH bank, I had 3 which even after cleaning couldn’t hold the oil and I could collapse them all the way down even by hand. So if lifter valve has failed mechanically, i.e. spring breaks or ball distorted. There is no cure other than replacement. However a thicker oil could help with the noise. Any other thing could be sorted with detergents, changing oil or driving harder. If it’s not a mechanical failure it will correct itself by driving the car more often.
I think I follow what you are saying. I do a fairly balanced combination of relaxed driving and also flat out - depends on my mood. Hard driving makes the sound louder at tick over. The mechanic at work was thinking that maybe because the oil will be much thinner after driving hard then the lifters aren't holding pressure. Is this what you are also saying?

I think the next step now is trying the viscosity treatment. Failing that, well so long as it's lifters and not the crankshaft then I'll probably just grin and bear it.
 

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I think I follow what you are saying. I do a fairly balanced combination of relaxed driving and also flat out - depends on my mood. Hard driving makes the sound louder at tick over. The mechanic at work was thinking that maybe because the oil will be much thinner after driving hard then the lifters aren't holding pressure. Is this what you are also saying?

I think the next step now is trying the viscosity treatment. Failing that, well so long as it's lifters and not the crankshaft then I'll probably just grin and bear it.
Correct. It happens only at very low rpms near idle. Nothing serious and it could be because of the new oil you have tried. Generally speaking, you could hear this more in summer due to warmer climates. Symptoms show that valves in lifters are stuck open and that means they will be washed when you drive. So hopefully they will improve as you drive. It very doubt tiny springs have failed at this mileage.
unfortunately I couldn’t find anything about lifters in WM. apparently they are not that important in Diesels and are made passive. In petrol engines they do control them precisely.
 

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Discussion Starter · #18 ·
Correct. It happens only at very low rpms near idle. Nothing serious and it could be because of the new oil you have tried. Generally speaking, you could hear this more in summer due to warmer climates. Symptoms show that valves in lifters are stuck open and that means they will be washed when you drive. So hopefully they will improve as you drive. It very doubt tiny springs have failed at this mileage.
unfortunately I couldn’t find anything about lifters in WM. apparently they are not that important in Diesels and are made passive. In petrol engines they do control them precisely.
My 7th Gen Honda Accord 2.4 had manually adjustable lifters which I had to fine tune to crazy tolerances, but it was actually rather satisfying to do, especially when the engine returned to a lovely quiet state. I miss petrol. Should have had my head examined for getting a diesel with my type of trips.
 
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Discussion Starter · #19 ·
Cool, cheers all. If it starts to make the noise right up the revs then I'll get worried, until then I'll chalk it up to engine characteristic. I'll maybe try C4 next time and keep a very close eye on the MAP sensor.
I think experimenting with C4 is a no go. After doing a little research it would seem that most of the specs including the ash content is acceptable, however, I believe the phosphorus content of C4 is higher and from what I've read this is good for engine protection but not so good for wear to the catalytic convertor and also increases emissions. I might have misread, but if this is the case then I don't want to worry about degrading my CAT and failing an MOT on emissions. I guess C1 is the spec for a reason!
 

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I’d be interested in your thoughts on Archoil 9100 oil additive Graham.

I’ve been using it in my last 2 oil changes, along with Shell Helix AF-L (C1).
 
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