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Discussion Starter · #161 ·
If you have a partner you can always bring her with you and then take her shopping round Liverpool One, any cost of the car will pale into insignificance then!:eek::ROFLMAO: Phil
You're not wrong! I brought my stepdaughter when I was in hospital there for an eye op a couple of years ago, as I needed a driver. Cost me a bloody fortune. :rolleyes:
 

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Discussion Starter · #162 ·
Finally got around to having a chat with this guy. He seems to know what he's talking about, which is always the first thing I look for. He's tied up for a couple of weeks (as am I), so I'll call back then and book a definite date. He says he'll be happy to spend a couple of hours with it, we can have lunch in town or something in the meantime.


Another slight twist. Since I've had the actuator changed, the RP issue seems to be a lot worse now. It kicks in immediately on any sort of quick acceleration now, and I think sometimes before I get anywhere near 2.8-3k revs. I'll check to make sure that is the case, but if so it's looking more and more like a vacuum leak.
 

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I think that's a positive thing, in that tracing the fault should now be easier if it goes to RP pretty much on demand now.
 
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Discussion Starter · #164 ·
Agreed, I was thinking the same thing. I should get a bit more time with it later in the week, I'll see what it's like at different speeds, drive modes etc.
 

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Discussion Starter · #165 ·
Where are you based, I use one of the best Jag workshops around, but he is based in Liverpool. Phil
I've now tried to contact this guy a few times over the past week and couldn't get an answer, so I texted him 3 days ago asking when was the best time to call and still couldn't get an answer. No reflection on you, but I need someone reliable. Last thing I need is somebody that I can't get hold of when I need them.

So I've booked in with a Jag Approved specialist who are not too far away, Auto Expert in Lytham. Their servicing prices are not much different to the main dealers, but they're used to dealing with high end cars - I've been a couple of times in the past for minor jobs and always got the impression they know what they're talking about. The customer car park is always full of higher end cars, Merc, Porsche etc. and it's not unusual to see the odd Maserati or Bentley in there. Always plenty of Range Rovers so they know the engine.

I called in and straight away they spent a good 10 minutes taking notes of details of what was happening, symptoms, what had been done and so on. None of this "OK just leave it with us and we'll have a look". Initial quote is just shy of £100 for the diag work, but I'm not overly concerned about the cost as long as it's not astronomical, I just want it right and done by somebody who knows what they're doing. Now booked in for the 29th.

The only slightly frustrating thing is this firm used to be based about 5 mins walk from where I live, which would have been perfect. Now they're about 12 miles away but there's a bus stop right outside which takes me within 200 yards of where I live.

We'll get there eventually!
 

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Sorry about that, I must admit I have never had a problem contacting him. Hope you are sorted soon then. Phil
 
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Discussion Starter · #167 ·
No, don't worry, it's one of those things. I'll be a bit more comfortable using somebody fairly local that I can go back to quickly if necessary anyway to be honest, but we're getting to the point where it really needs sorting out now.

Besides, I'm getting a bit fed up of not being able to overtake anybody!
 
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Discussion Starter · #168 · (Edited)
Very interesting drive today. (Sorry - another long post).

I haven't had the chance to get out of town for a few weeks, but I had a couple of hours spare today so decided to go out and do a forced regen, and try a new fuel additive at the same time since I needed fuel.

This new stuff is a little pricey compared to Archoil, Millers etc, and is part of a premium range of products called Oilsyn, made by the makers of Archoil.

It's a one-shot "next generation" DPF, Cat and Turbo cleaner, £27 for a 400ml can which you add to 30L of fuel. This was recommended by a neighbour, who's been using another product for the past few months that they make called Hybrogen Road (yep, Hybrogen with a 'b'), and he says it's the only thing he has ever used that has made his engine run noticeably smoother and increased fuel economy. This is a guy who always looks after his cars and changes his oil and filter every 3 months. I thought another £27 in the greater scheme of things isn't going break the bank so I decided give it a shot.

Details here: CarbonCode DPF & Turbo Doctor Tech Sheet (oilsyn.com)

So this is what happened. I drove 40 miles via the M55/M6 with Cruise on for the first 10 miles, second 10 I was in a 50mph zone, and the last 20 I ran at 65 as there was more traffic.

I started off with 45.7 grams of soot according to the Autel 200 in regen mode. For that first 40 miles it only dropped very slowly. In fact for the first 20 miles it only dropped around half a gram. At the 40 mile point I didn't have a lot of time to spare and it was getting close to rush hour, so I had to turn back. It read just over 40g at that point.

Coming back the motorway was quieter so I was able to maintain 70mph on cruise. That's where it got interesting.

Straight away the DPF reading started to drop, and at a rate where you could actually see the counter falling. After just 5 miles it had dropped to 28.2 grams, and after 15 miles it was down to 19 grams.

At that point I hit the 50mph zone again and the rate didn't really change again until the final 10 mile stretch where it started to fall again, but not as quickly as before. But it had fallen to 16.6 grams by the time I got to the end of the motorway, a drop of 25 grams in around 35 miles.


I don't know why it hardly moved for the first 40 miles then dropped 25 grams in the last 35. Could this be some sort of blockage that the Oilsyn additive has cleared?

I'm now curious to see if it will continue to fall enough to complete the Autel regen, so I'm going to try and go out again tomorrow and see what happens. If I can get it to continue dropping, I'll then see if I can get the RP issue to trigger when accelerating or decelerating. I deliberately kept the revs below the 2700 mark today to avoid it dropping into limp mode, but it's notable that when I've had the DPF cleaned previously, the RP issue goes away - for a while at least, presumably it's the DPF filling up again that creates the high back pressure, which in turn then triggers the RP issue.

The only potential problem is when the car goes in next week, it's now possible that they might not find anything. On the other hand, if this has cleared the problem that won't really matter. I doubt it has, but you never know!
 

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You know, I'm so glad I only have petrol cars now! Fingers crossed your issue is either resolved, or Auto Expert find and fix the root cause next week.
 
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Discussion Starter · #170 ·
Thanks, yes hopefully, it's very frustrating. My wife doesn't drive so I don't have anything else I can use when it's in, so having to keep take it in to have something else done to try and find the cause is a pain.

It's a shame as it's such a great car otherwise. The only positive it is hasn't been too expensive so far, but how that ends up depends on what they eventually find. I'm not overly concerned about that though, I just want it done and dusted.
 

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It's likely just a "small" thing that's wrong, but being very elusive to find.
 

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Discussion Starter · #172 ·
Yes I'm fairly sure it's something and nothing, the car generally drives fine outside of this issue. I've always believed that because apart from the fault codes that appear when it goes into RP mode there's nothing else showing, no other fault codes.

Also worth noting something I was told by Auto Expert last week but forgot to mention.

They told me that when you have the RP issue, the DPF active or passive regeneration doesn't work, so that at least explains why it's not regenerating automatically. In other words, when we find the RP problem it should also remove the DPF regen problem. It's (probably) not a separate fault as was considered earlier.
 

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Petrol cars now have GPFs, gasoline particulate filters, not sure yet if this fills up like diesels, hopefully it doesn't 🤞

Petrols also have EGR issues. There are lots of You Tube videos on cars that are all sooted/choked up with only a few thousand miles on the clock.

I think I need to find a car from the 80s/90s with out all the gubbins to go wrong!!
 

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You know, I'm so glad I only have petrol cars now! Fingers crossed your issue is either resolved, or Auto Expert find and fix the root cause next week.
Been thinking similar whilst reading this and also thinking back to all the DPF effort I had to put with my XF, although to be fair I did do a lot of short journeys. The petrol is near enough hassle free, except when my foot goes to the floor and the fuel gauge drops. The diesel had a distinct advantage there!
 

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Discussion Starter · #175 ·
The problem is they're not fit for purpose. An engine needs to breath and a DPF does the exact opposite and actually prevents that. Always gets me when people say "You bought the wrong car". It's not the car that is wrong, it's the legislation.

I actually think manufacturers do a pretty good job of incorporating it all, but there's no real clarity on how people need to adapt when they buy a diesel. This is my first diesel and while id heard of DPFs I wasn't aware that they can cause this much hassle or I would have looked for something else. I might even consider the newer 2 litre petrols because to be honest that's all the power I need, and I wouldn't have to worry so much about short journeys, but we'll see how it goes once I get this sorted out.

Anyway, I'm just about to go and give it another run to see what happens, also if clearing the DPF has affected the RP issue, but a few weeks ago I drove 90 miles, all motorway with cruise on at 70mph, and it only dropped from around 25g to 19.7g which was typical as we were unable to get it to drop beyond 20g. Yesterday it (eventually) dropped 20g in 15 miles, so something has definitely changed.
 

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I am honestly surprised it was to this extent though. It’s not like I’m constantly in sport or dynamic. When in sport or dynamic I can constantly hear the turbos, is this normal? They are instantly available, I’m talking like no delay whatsoever to put you in the back seat. Turn off dynamic and sport and she’s as tame as can be. I’ve never driven another 3.0D so do not know what is normal and thinking that perhaps it has been mapped.
Feel a bit strange replying to myself but whatever :).

I've been driving my XF in and out of sport mode and dynamic but primarily in 'drive' since this message. I have done various short journeys and some 45-50 min journeys at 40-50mph... I've yet to have a DPF full message... it's so strange. Don't get me wrong, I am not moaning but I have been CONSTANTLY fighting this DPF full problem since I purchased the car July last year. The car does smell of godawful exhaust when I first start it and reminds me of the old coaches to and from school from the 90's. But alas, no more DPF full warnings...

Only things changed are:
Less sport and dynamic mode
I have not connected my iCarsoft since
A bit less 'booting it'

I did whack it into sport mode one evening when I was having a little journey and for the whole 30 minutes I was at 2-3.5k RPM at least and pushing it to red line to see if I would fill the DPF and nope... nothing.

I'm sure I'll get into the car later and get the dreaded message but for now... it seems to be gone.... maybe I should check to see if my DPF hasn't been stolen!
 

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Discussion Starter · #178 ·
Feel a bit strange replying to myself but whatever :).
Don't worry about that, I keep a technical log with dates, mileage, oil changes etc. but part of the reason for this is it gives me a detailed log I can refer back to.

That's what I find odd, it's difficult to work out what's happening because the anomalies are so inconsistent. The only thing that seemed to improve mine was when the DPF was cleaned out I didn't get the RP issue every time, but that was worse in some ways because if I tried an overtake I didn't know whether I was going to lose power or not.

Anyway, I went out again yesterday and the pattern was almost exactly the same as it was the previous day - no change for the first 40 miles then it suddenly starts to fall.

I started the regen with a reading of 14.0 grams. I assume it was down slightly from the 16.6g it finished at the previous day because the first couple of miles didn't show the amount, until the engine got up to temperature.

I took a slightly different route where I knew there would be less traffic and I could maintain a consistent speed and ran it at 70mph using cruise. But again, for the next 40 miles again the reading didn't change at all. It only dropped by 0.1g to 13.9

Then I turned around to come back this time dropped the speed to 50mph and immediately it started to drop quickly again, falling to 9.1 within 3 miles. From there it varied up and down slightly but more or less stayed at that point. 10 miles from home I upped the speed to 75mph and within 5 miles it rose to 12.5. I dropped to 50 again for the last 5 miles and finished on 9.3 grams. But it did give me an "Acceptable level" notification:

Font Rectangle Technology Screenshot Parallel


and then a "Regen complete" notice, which is the first time I've EVER had that. It's never dropped below 20g previously, so changing the actuator does seem to have done something.

The obvious question is why doesn't it change for 40 miles then start to drop rapidly after that? The only thing that changes at the 40 mile point is I come off the motorway to turn around and come back, so I'm decelerating and stopping briefly at the roundabout, but saying that, on the first attempt it actually started to just drop before I came off the motorway, not after I'd slowed down so that isn't it.

The other point is that the RP issue is still there, in fact I tried it straight away and this time it triggered at about 2000 revs on accelerating - I'm pretty sure I never got anywhere close to 2800rpm, but I'll try it again today to be sure and take some fault code readings.

I'm glad it's going in on Monday though, it's driving me nuts. 🥴

I bet it's something really, really minor, although knowing my luck...
 

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Discussion Starter · #179 · (Edited)
... Sometimes after a REALLY long journey the DPF light doesn't come on for a few weeks, however, after almost 5 hour drive last month, the DPF light came on a few days after the journey.....
Just been reading through this again, looking for clues really, and this is what I find really unusual. I've had spells where the RP issue doesn't come on and it runs fine, then the RP issue kicks in at the end of a longer than usual journey, rather than earlier on in the trip. You would expect a recurring problem to show up earlier, not after several hours.

A quick recap: Since having the actuator swapped I was getting the RP issue coming up very quickly, even without accelerating too hard and at lower revs than 2800-3000. I noted the last time it hit limp mode it was at 2000 revs when accelerating. But it was also happening when DEcelerating, which never happed at all prior to having the actuator changed. I could also never get the DPF value below 20g previously, but recently completed a successful (forced) regen.

I recently stated that I'd added the Oilsyn additive to the tank recently. Since then I've refilled with Shell standard (not Vpower) diesel and added 60ml of Archoil AR6900 D-Max additive. I've driven around for the past couple of days and never had the RP issue once. I counted at least a dozen times where I've gone right up to 4000 revs. No problems at all. Until today, when I kept in it Dynamic/Sports mode manual change and left it in 2nd gear. Accelerated to over 4500 rpm, then got the RP issue again, and I'm getting the same fault codes, indicating that the 2nd turbo valve is sticking open. (P22D2-77 and P22CF-71 Turbo inlet valve stuck open - Intermittent).

I'm now pretty convinced that something is either sticking somewhere, or it is clogged up somewhere.

Bad news is the garage can't get it in until next week (There's a Bentley and a Porsche ahead of me apparently, but if they're tackling those it does at least suggest they know their stuff).

Also bumped into a mate of mine the other day that I had not seen for a while. He uses the same garage and also had the DPF issue (on a Lexus GS250). Turned out on his it was the EGR valve that was blocked up. I've seen the photos, it was seriously blocked! I had already asked the DPF garage to check, remove and clean mine as required on two separate occasions but I wouldn't be in the least bit surprised if they didn't do. Neither of my invoices even mentions it.

The fact that the RP issue us happening less, and at higher revs (mostly), than it was after adding the Oilsyn additive and using the Archoil for a few months suggests it could be a blockage that is gradually beginning to clear. Just another theory of course but I'm going to see how often I get the problem to trigger again over the next week.
 

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I cleaned my brother's EGR valve on his Civic and it's horrific, almost completely blocked up. Had to chisel the crud off it was so bad. Fortunately it very easy to access and remove, almost the same for the CRV although it had two lower bolts that were very difficult to access.

I was looking into doing it with the XF but I'm sure it's quite a time consuming job to access and remove and I'm sure there's two of them as well on each side? Quite possible that they didn't bother, but certainly something with doing from my experience.
 
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