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Am I correct in thinking there are 2 issues?
RP over 3000rpm and the DPF not regenerating correctly?
I'm interested to see if the Autel show soot level. The Icarsoft (as we all know) shows the wrong level and the JLT SST only flashes it up for less than a second!
 

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Discussion Starter · #102 ·
Am I correct in thinking there are 2 issues?
RP over 3000rpm and the DPF not regenerating correctly?
I'm interested to see if the Autel show soot level. The Icarsoft (as we all know) shows the wrong level and the JLT SST only flashes it up for less than a second!
Yes there are 2 issues - and my problem is the garage seem to think it's something to do with the DPF. I'm not convinced, I think it's something to do with the second turbo. If the valve is stuck open I assume that will coke up the DPF faster, so the two issues are probably linked.

I've just received the Autel, and I ran a diag with it just a few minutes ago so I haven't been through the results fully yet, but already I've found an interesting result.

Same two fault codes, but now I get all 6 digits:

P22D2-77: Turbo inlet valve stuck open.
P22CF-71: Turbo inlet valve control circuit open.

The great thing about the Autel is it shows a list of readings associated with the fault code. Now unless you know what the values should be it's not much use, but this stood out:

TURBO shut off valve opening position - Commanded: 0 pct (percent)
TURBO shut off valve opening position - Measured: 100 pct.

To me, that says that the computer is asking, or commanding the car to close the valve (0%), but the actual position (Measured) is open - 100%. Assuming I'm interpreting it correctly of course.

Font Rectangle Material property Parallel Number


There was another oddity. I've only driven around the block while getting the engine up to temp to get a soot reading via a forged regen command, which requires the temp to be 60 degrees so I never went over 30mph, but the Autel recorded a speed of 71mph. I'm wondering if there's a sensor issue somewhere that's throwing the system out.

The other strange thing is that according to the garage, a forced regen won't drop the soot level below 20%. Current reading is 25.7%, which I obtained by starting a forced regen. There is a section named "Live data" so I'll take a look later to see what info that provides.
 

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Discussion Starter · #105 ·
It does look like your shut off valve is stuck open!

I was thinking all your readings are in metric, but 71kmh is about 44mph, so not that!
Yes all the indications point to the shut off valve. The other thing to come from this is the "intermittent" tag, which could be why it worked OK when the garage had it. I'm tempted to just get the actuator swapped out rather than bothering with the EGR valves, which I have no real reason to suspect. Problem is I'm out of time as we go on holiday on Friday, and there's no time to get it in before that. We're only going to the Lake District, about 120 mile run from where we live. Who knows, a long run might even clear it - although I'm not usually that lucky. But at least I can keep an eye on it and do a forced regen if necessary.

Just had a more in-depth look at the Autel, it does show soot remaining volume, in gallons or litres - in theory. I'm not sure what it should be, but mine is showing zero. It was set to "English", hence gallons and mph. Setting to Metric gives you litres and kmh.

It also gives you the number of successful regens (0), number of demanded regens (32), number of incomplete regens (1), DPF regen inhibited status, whatever that means (0), number of partial successful regens (0). (My figures in brackets, which confirms it's not regenerating.)

There's a lot to like about the Autel.
  • You can leave the unit plugged into the car, no need to faff about removing it every time.
  • You can record everything, and it saves reports in PDF format.
  • There's no built in direct print function but you can share it to anything you want, email, text message, notepad, OneDrive etc. and print from there.
  • Much slicker and easier to use than the iCarsoft, but of course you need to connect it to a smartphone. I do wish I'd bought this in the first place though. It's a lot cheaper than the iCarsoft kit too.
 

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'DPF regen inhibited status' could be because of your turbo issue. The regen will stop if a fault is detected. It won't even start if there's a MIL lamp on.

Perhaps your shut off valve fails part way through a regen and causes it to stop??
 

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Discussion Starter · #107 ·
I've not had a lot of time to search for any more info today, but the fact that I get the Restricted Performance kicking in at around 3000 revs says to me it has to be the turbo that is the problem. It matches the diag test results. It doesn't happen every time, or at least not straight away.

The garage said that the actuator wasn't sticking at all, but thinking about it, I spoke briefly to the local turbo guy a few weeks ago - the guy that collects and refurbs turbos from local garages - and I remember him saying something about it not being the actuator itself that sticks, but the vane, wastegate, valve or whatever you want to call it.

The thing the garage was puzzled about was that on a forced regen, the soot level wouldn't drop below 20 grams. But if the valve is open when it should be closed, maybe it's pumping soot back in as fast as it's trying to get rid of it. Or it's throwing the sensor readings out or something.

I wish I understood a little more about how the system works, but I'm betting that if I fix the turbo issue it will fix the regen problem.
 

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Discussion Starter · #109 ·
Forced regen should get you to zero, at least mine did. 6 grams is deemed acceptable I believe, incidentally, the last 6 grams to zero takes ages.
It should, but for whatever reason it won't drop below 20 according to the garage. They had four attempts on the motorway.

I will drop it in on Wednesday morning, it can't do any harm to get the EGR valves checked as planned, but we'll take it from there.
 

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Discussion Starter · #110 ·
OK, so I decided to try a forced regen this morning and got some very interesting results. The route taken was about 30 miles both ways. The first couple of miles were 30 mph urban dual carraigeway (with the usual tits doing 20 in the outside lane), to get to the motorway and the rest was motorway driving. Same coming back, so around 60 miles in total.

Getting the car up to operating temp (60°) got me to the start of the motorway. The initial soot reading was 25.8 grams.

For the first 10 miles at around 70mph, cruise on, it only dropped very slowly and at the end of that section it had only come down by 0.5 grams. still, at least it was coming down. I carried on and got to a quieter section about 15 miles in and upped the speed to 90. It then started to drop pretty quickly, and by the time I'd reached the 30 mile half way point it had fallen by 4 grams to 21.8, but still overall a lot slower than I would have expected - at that rate (around a gram every 8 miles) it would have taken something like 240 miles to drop to 6 grams.

I turned around and on the way back it carried on dropping at a similar rate, but then I had to lift off to switch from one motorway to another, a long sweeping slip road where I had to lift off and slowed to around 50mph and it dropped rapidly during that section of about a mile, down to 17.4 grams. I hit a 50mph zone and had to stay at that speed, and it crept back up to 21.8.

That 50mph zone lasted about 5 miles, then I got back up to 70 and it fluctuated up and down, mostly creeping upwards again, finishing at 22.5g when I stopped at my office at the end of the motorway, a couple of miles from home. In the next two miles through town, from office to home it went back up to 23.1g.

So overall, a 60 mile drive at mostly motorway speeds I dropped just 2.7 grams. I deliberately didn't use higher revs, for one I didn't want to trigger the RP issue on the motorway as that would have skewed the test results anyway, and it was raining pretty heavily at first. The only thing I can say for sure is at least I know the regen system is working.

I have a 120 mile run on Friday when we go away, the first 90 of which is on the same motorway, when we go up to the Lake District for a week so I might get a better idea then. It should be interesting week if nothing else!
 

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Can you monitor the exhaust gas sensor temps?
Mine were around 180° rising up to about 240° under load.
250° degrees is the required temp for a passive regen.
Since I blocked the EGR valves, the exhaust temps have risen and I've had the soot level increase 7g in 800 miles. The soot level goes up and down depending on how and where I'm driving.
Does this look similar to yours?
This is before I blanked the valves
Colorfulness Rectangle Font Line Parallel


This is the last 10 days or so after blanking the EGR.
Colorfulness Product Rectangle Font Parallel
 

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Discussion Starter · #113 · (Edited)
Right, A summary and a theory.

Summary:
I know that I get the Restricted Performance (RP) thing when I accelerate past 2500-3000 revs, but not every time.
When I get the RP issue, the fault codes that come up (P22D2, P22CF) suggest it's a valve that's stuck open.
The Autel diagnostic also shows the turbo shut off valve opening position is measured at 100%, but the commanded position should be 0%. If I understand that correctly, it means that the computer is commanding the car to close the valve (commanded position), but the actual position is open (measured position).
I know that the DPF is filling up quickly and not regenerating.
A forced regen shows the soot level only goes down slowly.

I'm not a mechanic but this is my theory on what is happening:
The turbo shut-off valve should be closed, but sometimes it's stuck open. That explains why sometimes I can accelerate past 3000 rpm with no problem, and other times I go into RP/limp mode and I then get the fault codes.

When it's stuck open, it is pumping more soot (or oil) into the DPF than it should be, therefore causing it to fill up quickly. Because it's filling up faster than it should be, the soot level is taking longer than it should to come down during a forced regen, as it's pumping soot into the DPF almost as fast as it's trying to burn it off. This is therefore causing the failed regens because it's taking far too long to complete them.

So the overall problem must be a sticking valve, there's probably nothing wrong with the DPF. If I get the valve fixed, it also sorts out the DPF issue as it will then regen as it's supposed to. Does that make sense?


I've also got a boot that won't open now, but with a "Boot open" warning on the dash. Having read a few threads on here it looks like I have the dreaded boot wiring loom problem (although the car does lock), but hopefully I'll get the chance to do at least a temp repair before we go away on Friday.
 

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I think you've assessed the problem correctly. The secondary turbo valve actuator is a known issue and subject to sticking (due to lack of use is my theory so I make sure it gets used at least once a day).
Replacement is a quick and straightforward job.
 
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Discussion Starter · #116 ·
The system has been checked over and there were no vacuum leaks or anything of that nature, although the garage were proceeding on the basis that it was a DPF issue and originally advised me to try replacing that.

I was never happy with that, if it's filling up quickly then obviously something must be causing that to happen. I'm no mechanic but I do tend to try and think things through logically.

EGR valves tested this morning, not physically checked as we both agreed that's not likely to be the problem. Interesting to note that the Turbo shut off valve commanded and measured values both read zero when testing this morning - previously the measured value read 100%, suggesting it was stuck open. That's the only thing I don't understand - if it is sticking open then why does the problem clear when you turn off the ignition, as it always does?

The garage have now agreed that the actuator might well be the problem so we've decided to replace that. They have offered to replace it for free if I order the part, so they're definitely not making suggestions just to gain more work. I just need to check the part number then I'll get it ordered. It's booked in to be done on the 23rd, after we back from holiday and I'll report back.

Just one question, is this the valve that's commonly referred to as the CSOV, rather than the TSOV? I read an earlier thread of somebody with a similar problem and there seemed to be some confusion. I just want to be sure I order the right part.


Fixed the boot opening, it was indeed a broken cable. Nice, easy fix which makes a refreshing change, thanks in part to earlier posts on the issue on here. :D
 

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Discussion Starter · #117 ·
OK so on to our break up in the Lake District, and apart from blowing a tyre after scraping the sidewall on the Honister Pass on Sunday, after pulling in to let a bus through that was coming the other way - could have done without it but boy was I glad I'd bought that space saver spare and torque wrench a few weeks ago - it's been fine.

I've done almost 400 miles and a good number of overtakes in low gear to get the revs over 3000. Not a problem. Car never flinched. Until today, when I got the RP error again.

It's weird. Of three occasions where I got the revs over 3k today, the third one was the least aggressive, for want of a better way of putting it, and that's when I hit the RP error, and it happened almost immediately as soon as it approached 3000 revs. On the previous two I'd pushed it to over 4k and it was perfectly fine with it.

However, I'm using the Autel 200 to run forced regens each day to keep the soot level low, and it absolutely will not drop below 20 grams, In fact the lowest I got was 21.1 after the 90 mile run up the M6 to Carlisle. Since then it's been up and down depending on speed and driving conditions, but averages around 23 grams. That said it's gone up a bit in the past couple of days and is now reading 27.1g


So there's clearly a problem somewhere, and any hopes of the RP error clearing on a run have now disappeared completely, as I've been able to keep up a decent pace on fairly quiet roads and no real stop-start driving anywhere.

Here's the bit I'm puzzled about. If this was a sticking actuator on the second turbo, WHY would it throw up an RP error whenever I hit 3000 revs, i.e. whenever the 2nd turbo kicks in? Surely if the actuator is sticking open at the time it hits 3000 revs or so, then it wouldn't matter would it, since at that engine speed it's supposed to be open anyway? So that shouldn't be a problem.

Wouldn't the RP issue only occur on deceleration, when the waste gate is supposed to close? If it's sticking open when it's supposed to be open anyway, it wouldn't matter, would it? What are we missing here?
 

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The car will know where the actuator position should be and if it‘s not where is supposed to be the car will through a RP
 
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OK so on to our break up in the Lake District, and apart from blowing a tyre after scraping the sidewall on the Honister Pass on Sunday, after pulling in to let a bus through that was coming the other way - could have done without it but boy was I glad I'd bought that space saver spare and torque wrench a few weeks ago - it's been fine.

I've done almost 400 miles and a good number of overtakes in low gear to get the revs over 3000. Not a problem. Car never flinched. Until today, when I got the RP error again.

It's weird. Of three occasions where I got the revs over 3k today, the third one was the least aggressive, for want of a better way of putting it, and that's when I hit the RP error, and it happened almost immediately as soon as it approached 3000 revs. On the previous two I'd pushed it to over 4k and it was perfectly fine with it.

However, I'm using the Autel 200 to run forced regens each day to keep the soot level low, and it absolutely will not drop below 20 grams, In fact the lowest I got was 21.1 after the 90 mile run up the M6 to Carlisle. Since then it's been up and down depending on speed and driving conditions, but averages around 23 grams. That said it's gone up a bit in the past couple of days and is now reading 27.1g


So there's clearly a problem somewhere, and any hopes of the RP error clearing on a run have now disappeared completely, as I've been able to keep up a decent pace on fairly quiet roads and no real stop-start driving anywhere.

Here's the bit I'm puzzled about. If this was a sticking actuator on the second turbo, WHY would it throw up an RP error whenever I hit 3000 revs, i.e. whenever the 2nd turbo kicks in? Surely if the actuator is sticking open at the time it hits 3000 revs or so, then it wouldn't matter would it, since at that engine speed it's supposed to be open anyway? So that shouldn't be a problem.

Wouldn't the RP issue only occur on deceleration, when the waste gate is supposed to close? If it's sticking open when it's supposed to be open anyway, it wouldn't matter, would it? What are we missing here?

After reading the first few words I thought this was going to be a tale of marital disharmony and pending divorce.

My take on the problem: there's a leak in the induction pipework causing a fuel/air mismatch . . . sometimes. Also, if there's too much or too little fuel being injected this may be the reason for the DPF being constantly fuel.
 
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However, I'm using the Autel 200 to run forced regens each day to keep the soot level low, and it absolutely will not drop below 20 grams, In fact the lowest I got was 21.1 after the 90 mile run up the M6 to Carlisle. Since then it's been up and down depending on speed and driving conditions, but averages around 23 grams. That said it's gone up a bit in the past couple of days and is now reading 27.1g
Worth keeping a close eye on oil levels with all these regens, especially if there's any suspicion that they may not be functioning/completing properly.

I got the point where I was doing a regen once a week, but I was also aware of a strange idling noise from deep within the engine bay that got progressively louder despite at one point doing an oil change every month and the oil did not look healthy. I got both the local Jag indy garage as well as a very experience motor engineer to listen to it and they both suspected the crank was heading towards its doom. I'd be wary of doing too many forced regens.
 
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