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Discussion Starter · #1 · (Edited)
OK here goes. I am a member of another forum but can't get a reply to this so any input would be appreciated. I'm not looking for a guaranteed fix (though that would be nice!)

Long story so I'll try and keep it as short (as I can).

History: I bought a 2009 (MY10) XF 3.0d last June. This was my first diesel car and when I collected it, it had the amber DPF Full warning light lit. The dealer said it had just been stood and needed a run for around half an hour. The car was low mileage (52k) and the previous 2 owners had both only done around 3,000 miles each over a 2 year period (so 6k in 4 years), and overall it looked like a decent buy.

The 35 mile trip home (part 50mph A road, part motorway) didn't clear the DPF warning and it took around 120 motorway miles to eventually clear it.

Now I do quite a few 1 to 4 mile short journeys totalling around 20 miles a week and was advised to take it on a run of 30 miles or so once a month, which I did. I found the DPF warning coming on roughly once every 5-6 weeks which I assumed was normal. It generally took between 30-60 miles on the motorway to clear it.

But I did have another issue: When booting it, it would go into limp mode, seemingly when the turbo kicked in, and the "Service due" light would come on although the car had been serviced previously not that long ago. After a bit of research and getting a diag check, everything pointed to either a turbo problem or DPF filter. I took it in to a DPF specialist (ukdpf.co.uk in Blackpool) and he said the DPF filter was full and needed removing and cleaning. This was done, along with an oil and filter change and following that everything was fine and the faults and limp mode cleared, plus I had more power than I'd had before so it was obvious it had been blocked up. Of course, not having driven before it was well on it's way to being clogged up I had no point of reference so couldn't tell there was a potential problem.


Since then it's been absolutely fine until a couple of weeks ago when the amber DPF Full warning came on again. I thought this was a bit odd because the previous weekend we'd been over to Yorkshire on a back-road run, fast and quiet. In fact for the past few weekends we'd been out and about, including motorway runs of 40-60 miles each way. Whereas in the winter I never really left town, just using it for short journeys - so why would I get the warning now rather than in the winter months?

Anyway, the next weekend we went out on another 45 miles motorway run (Blackpool to Carnforth) which cleared the warning, came back via the quieter A roads. Few stops (traffic lights etc.), no hold ups or slow or standing traffic, I try to plan most journeys along similar routes at quiet times if I can.

Then within a few days and around 20 miles of local driving the warning came back on. A 60 mile round trip on the motorway has failed to clear it this time.

I've done a diag with an iCarsoft LR v2 that I bought, and it throws up just one fault code:
P2459 - DPF Regeneration Frequency error.

The only other things of note are an "oil quality dilution factor" reading of 6.04 "inferred", and when setting up the iCarsoft unit to do a manual forced regen (just to get a reading), it showed a soot level of 3329.08 grams.

Given that it won't start a regen if the figure is over 60 grams, 3329 grams seems absurd. Could it really be that high? since the DPF filter was cleaned about 6 months ago I've only done circa. 2000 miles with an estimated 400-500 of that (probably less rather than more) being local journeys, and a run of at least 30 miles on the motorway at around 60-70 on most weeks.

Now I know that some say it shouldn't be used for short journeys but surely it should be able to cope with that in between runs? What I find odd is that it still seems to drive perfectly well, acceleration is as potent as ever and there's no black smoke at the back .It is going back in to the DPF guy on Thursday but I'm just puzzled by the readings, I don't do excessive short journeys (in my opinion) and having already had the DPF removed and cleaned not that long ago, it doesn't make any sense. Any ideas? And thanks if you made it this far!
 

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Insufficient/incorrect diesel exhaust fluid
Shorted or open wiring to the DPF injection system
Faulty DPF
Open or shorted circuit in DPF pressure sensor circuit
Faulty DPF pressure sensor
The diesel exhaust fluid reservoir may be empty
Improper diesel exhaust fluid
 
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Hi, the service due light could be because of oil dilution, if you have a dipstick does the oil level appear to rise. If doing a lot of short journeys the oil should be changed more often than the stated interval. I always fill the oil to halfway between the min and max mark, I check the oil level every week and I can then see any increase in the oil level immediately. Phil
 
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Discussion Starter · #4 ·
Insufficient/incorrect diesel exhaust fluid
Shorted or open wiring to the DPF injection system
Faulty DPF
Open or shorted circuit in DPF pressure sensor circuit
Faulty DPF pressure sensor
The diesel exhaust fluid reservoir may be empty
Improper diesel exhaust fluid
Yes, I've read up on the fault codes. This is a 2009 model so there's no separate Adblue tank, pressure readings according to the diag reader seem OK - although I'm not sure what they should be.
 

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Discussion Starter · #5 ·
Hi, the service due light could be because of oil dilution, if you have a dipstick does the oil level appear to rise. If doing a lot of short journeys the oil should be changed more often than the stated interval. I always fill the oil to halfway between the min and max mark, I check the oil level every week and I can then see any increase in the oil level immediately. Phil
There is no service light, the only warning I'm getting is the DPF Full light. diag test isn't throwing up any other fault codes at all (unlike when the DPF needed cleaning which threw up half a dozen other codes).

No dipstick, it's a digital readout for the oil but I added 0.7 litre a couple of weeks ago which took it up to the 3/4 full mark, so about the same as yours, and it hasn't moved from there at all. No obvious signs that diesel is getting into the sump. Oil/filter change was done when the DPF filter was cleaned, only 2000 miles ago. I specified the recommended low ash type oil (C1?)
 

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Yes, I've read up on the fault codes. This is a 2009 model so there's no separate Adblue tank, pressure readings according to the diag reader seem OK - although I'm not sure what they should be.
Understood.
I'd recommend some really spirited driving along the M55 in the dead of night.
What flavour of diesel are you using?
 

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There is no service light, the only warning I'm getting is the DPF Full light. diag test isn't throwing up any other fault codes at all (unlike when the DPF needed cleaning which threw up half a dozen other codes).

No dipstick, it's a digital readout for the oil but I added 0.7 litre a couple of weeks ago which took it up to the 3/4 full mark, so about the same as yours, and it hasn't moved from there at all. No obvious signs that diesel is getting into the sump. Oil/filter change was done when the DPF filter was cleaned, only 2000 miles ago. I specified the recommended low ash type oil (C1?)
I'm sorry but you stated "and the "Service due" light would come on". Phil
 

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Discussion Starter · #8 ·
Shell V-Power. The only exception were the last couple of fills prior to the latest one when the local garage had run out and I was a bit low so used Esso standard, as they didn't have a premium option.

Prior to the last run I added some Millers Eco Max diesel and have since refilled it with Shell Vpower but to no avail.

I'm not averse to the odd spirited drive, my main concern here is the 3,3kg soot reading.

An old chap in the same street as me has the exact same car, same year, same engine and says he's never been any further than the next town (Lytham, abut 7-8 miles and lucky if you can hit 30 most of the way), NEVER been on the motorway with it because he hates motorways, and has never even seen the DPF warning in the 4 years he's had it. And he doesn't strike me as the type that likes to rush anywhere.
 

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Discussion Starter · #9 ·
I'm sorry but you stated "and the "Service due" light would come on". Phil
Originally, yes, prior to having the DPF removed sand cleaned last year, which resolved the problem:

I took it in to a DPF specialist (ukdpf.co.uk in Blackpool) and he said the DPF filter was full and needed removing and cleaning. This was done, along with an oil and filter change and everything was fine

It's been fine since then, until this latest episode, but I'll update the OP to make it clearer. sorry for any confusion.
 

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Shell V-Power. The only exception were the last couple of fills prior to the latest one when the local garage had run out and I was a bit low so used Esso standard, as they didn't have a premium option.

Prior to the last run I added some Millers Eco Max diesel and have since refilled it with Shell Vpower but to no avail.

I'm not averse to the odd spirited drive, my main concern here is the 3,3kg soot reading.

An old chap in the same street as me has the exact same car, same year, same engine and says he's never been any further than the next town (Lytham, abut 7-8 miles and lucky if you can hit 30 most of the way), NEVER been on the motorway with it because he hates motorways, and has never even seen the DPF warning in the 4 years he's had it. And he doesn't strike me as the type that likes to rush anywhere.
I'd be tempted to take it into a decent Jag specialist, as you don't seem to be fitting the bill for a typical regen issue..
 
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Discussion Starter · #11 ·
I'd be tempted to take it into a decent Jag specialist, as you don't seem to be fitting the bill for a typical regen issue..
Quite! I'll get the DPF guy to take a look first, it's booked in anyway and the cleanout does carry a 12 month warranty. He does seem to know what he's talking about and I drive past the place often, he seems to do a lot of Range Rovers in particular and drives one himself with the 3,0d engine, although probably the later Ingenium one.

I was just hoping somebody might have come across something similar and I think it helps sometimes if you can suggest possible causes based on what others have experienced. My personal opinion, mostly because it's driving OK, is that it's a sensor issue but it's definitely not my field.
 

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2021 F-Pace P250 SE R-Dynamic, 2004 XK8 Coupe 4.2
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Do you run around with the fuel tank low, if it is too low it won’t allow a regen to happen.
 
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Discussion Starter · #13 ·
Do you run around with the fuel tank low, if it is too low it won’t allow a regen to happen.
No, I generally refill at about 1/4 tank. I assume, rightly or wrongly, that if the fuel gets too low it might start dragging any debris through the filter from the bottom of the tank so I'd rather not let it drop too low. I'm also never sure about the readout, my last car ran out of fuel miles from anywhere at 4 a.m. with 50 miles range still showing on the clock.

I do get the impression that's the problem though, that it isn't regenerating when it should be.
 

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No, I generally refill at about 1/4 tank. I assume, rightly or wrongly, that if the fuel gets too low it might start dragging any debris through the filter from the bottom of the tank so I'd rather not let it drop too low. I'm also never sure about the readout, my last car ran out of fuel miles from anywhere at 4 a.m. with 50 miles range still showing on the clock.

I do get the impression that's the problem though, that it isn't regenerating when it should be.
What do you think happens when you dump 60L of fuel on top?
 

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Discussion Starter · #15 ·
What do you think happens when you dump 60L of fuel on top?
I know, it's just me.

I had a weird problem many years ago with a VW LT30 van. Whenever it got really low on fuel (under 1/4 tank) it would cut out. If we left it for a couple of minutes it would fire up again and run perfectly, sometimes for a mile or two, sometimes further, but sooner or later it would cut out again. Fill it up and it was fine until the fuel level got low again.

We took it in to various garages and probably spent over £3000 trying to find the problem (this was over 20 years ago), but nobody could. We changed fuel filters, glow plugs, everything and it had been tinkered with so much in the end that nobody could get the timing right again. We decided to change the fuel tank, since there was nothing else left to try, and in the bottom of the tank there was a little bit of silver foil, like a seal of the type you get on a bottle of Redex.

What was happening was this was swirling around the tank and every so often the pump would suck it up and it would block the flow of fuel. Turn off the engine and it would then just float to the bottom of the tank again. That tiny little bit of foil gave us hassle for months, cost us thousands and left the van in a state where we could never get it running again the way it used to. Ever since then I've never let the tank drop below 1/4 full.
 

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OK, the other thing to be wary of is if on your short journeys it’s just started a regen when you switch off it will fail to complete & dump the unused fuel in the oil. About the only way to know this is when you get out there is a loud ticking noise (not the usual exhaust cooling) and there may be a strange aroma.
 
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Also check the differential pressure sensor for the DPF.
They are known to go faulty and prevent regents from happening.

My Autel Ap200 reader will show the live readings from it and I imagine the iCarsoft will too

The workshop manual, available to download from here will explain how to interpret these readings.
 
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Discussion Starter · #19 ·
OK, the other thing to be wary of is if on your short journeys it’s just started a regen when you switch off it will fail to complete & dump the unused fuel in the oil. About the only way to know this is when you get out there is a loud ticking noise (not the usual exhaust cooling) and there may be a strange aroma.
Have to say that I've noticed the burning smell a couple of times, though when I thought about it the other day I realised I hadn't been aware of it for quite some time, which is one of the reasons I don't think it's regenerating. Can't say I've ever heard the ticking noise, I assume you mean the metal expanding/contracting?

I don't understand why they don't fit something that tells you when it's regenerating and when it's finished, so at least you have the option to continue your journey if a regen is in progress. Seems an odd omission for something so important.
 

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Discussion Starter · #20 ·
Could perhaps be a leak on the pressurised air inlet circuit (intercooler or manifold) which is leading to incomplete combustion and excess soot production.
Thanks. When I take a car in for any work to be done I always write things down so I'll note anything mentioned on here, somebody might just come up with something that might otherwise be missed.
 
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