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There's a difference between operating a profitable business and fleecing customers for as much as you can get out of them, at least morally. I don't really know why retailers/forecourt owners are being discussed here because we all know that their share of the value of each litre is only a couple of percent. It goes much deeper than the retailers, and obviously you're not so naïve that you don't know that.

As for Apple, they sell a £1000 product that's worth £200 (based on the selling price of equivalent Android products), and they do it by selling to gullible Americans by trying (and for the most part, succeeding) in convincing then that it's a considerably better product. Except it isn't.

One example is the way they name certain features then market it as a unique feature that nobody has. The "Retina" screen was a classic example. They told the world it was unique, it was the best screen out there. Except it wasn't, not by some distance. But you couldn't compare them because nobody else was allowed to use the exact same "Retina" screen. Dress it up any way you like but they basically deceived people, it's nothing to do with "market forces", it's deception, pure and simple.

Not convinced? Well here's a completely different example. Some years ago a friend of mine bought an accident damaged Lotus (I forget which model), and rebuilt it. It was almost complete and amongst the few things he still needed was a front indicator/sidelight lens. Lotus quoted around £300 - this was over 30 years ago.

Convinced he'd seen the same part elsewhere, he held his ground and waited while he tried to remember where. Then he spotted one. On a Morris Marina. It was the exact same part, made in the exact same factory, and the Morris Marina one cost £18. Again that's just blatant profiteering. The point is this is widespread company policy, these are not isolated incidents.
they did use Morris parts.
not blatant profiteering,.. margins are important
 

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Who knew I was a gullible American.


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they did use Morris parts.
not blatant profiteering,.. margins are important
OK I give in, because if £300 for an £18 part isn't anything BUT blatant profiteering then I must be from a different planet. Remember we're not talking about £18 wholesale or manufacturing cost vs £300 selling price, we're talking about simply buying the exact same part.

I'm pretty sure that most reasonably sane people would be pretty unhappy if they found that one part on a Jag cost 16 times more than the same part on a Ford. And yes, I do know it goes on between different models but I doubt there are too many instances where the difference is over 16X
 

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I'm fully Apple'd up, latest iPhone, several Macs, MacBook Air (writing this on it right now), iPads, and Apple Watch. The whole family is too. I don't own a PC running MS OS. So I must be gullible too. I also have a string of Professional MS qualifications after my name... as that's my job. But I don't take work home with me!
 

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The difference between Lotus & BL is that despite their vehicles having the same number of components, Lotus sold very few & BL sold thousands. Once you apportion the running costs of the parts department, the selling price of Lotus parts may need to be 16x higher than BL?

What you regard as deception, an entrepreneur would call "marketing". Surely a key business skill is creating a USP regardless of whether you sell the best product or not? Apple have done that successfully by creating a premium brand.

If you wanted to sell your car, would you try to get as much for it as you could or would you price match the cheapest offering on autotrader?

Business is not an extension of the welfare state or a charity.
 
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I'm fully Apple'd up, latest iPhone, several Macs, MacBook Air (writing this on it right now), iPads, and Apple Watch. The whole family is too. I don't own a PC running MS OS. So I must be gullible too. I also have a string of Professional MS qualifications after my name... as that's my job. But I don't take work home with me!
Completely missed the point.
 

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The difference between Lotus & BL is that despite their vehicles having the same number of components, Lotus sold very few & BL sold thousands. Once you apportion the running costs of the parts department, the selling price of Lotus parts may need to be 16x higher than BL?

What you regard as deception, an entrepreneur would call "marketing". Surely a key business skill is creating a USP regardless of whether you sell the best product or not? Apple have done that successfully by creating a premium brand.

If you wanted to sell your car, would you try to get as much for it as you could or would you price match the cheapest offering on autotrader?

Business is not an extension of the welfare state or a charity.
You're completely twisting the argument. Getting as much as you can for something doesn't mean charging 16x it's actual value.

There's a difference between maximising your profits and ripping people off, and there's a difference between successful marketing and deceiving the public into thinking a product is better than the competition and therefore worth far more, regardless of whether you want to accept it or not.

Although some of the responces here highlight much that's wrong with the capitalist system.
 

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Completely missed the point.
No I didn't. But I was disagreeing to your argument by you using Apple as an example of over-priced exploitation:
As for Apple, they sell a £1000 product that's worth £200 (based on the selling price of equivalent Android products), and they do it by selling to gullible Americans by trying (and for the most part, succeeding) in convincing then that it's a considerably better product. Except it isn't.
My point, is that the market will dictate a price the product can sell for, and people will choose to buy it or not. Being ripped off is when there is little or no choice, such as the current price of fuel. BTW, Apple is a better product when used in conjunction with other Apple products. But I digress far to far off topic....
 

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Try buying anything designated to be for "marine use", if you want to see a markup.
 

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You're completely twisting the argument. Getting as much as you can for something doesn't mean charging 16x it's actual value.

There's a difference between maximising your profits and ripping people off, and there's a difference between successful marketing and deceiving the public into thinking a product is better than the competition and therefore worth far more, regardless of whether you want to accept it or not.

Although some of the responces here highlight much that's wrong with the capitalist system.
I'd be interested to know your thoughts on the bottled water industry? Evian Spring Water costs £2.37/litre on Amazon which makes diesel seem like a bargain at £1.95/litre.
 
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The difference between Lotus & BL is that despite their vehicles having the same number of components, Lotus sold very few & BL sold thousands. Once you apportion the running costs of the parts department, the selling price of Lotus parts may need to be 16x higher than BL?

What you regard as deception, an entrepreneur would call "marketing". Surely a key business skill is creating a USP regardless of whether you sell the best product or not? Apple have done that successfully by creating a premium brand.

If you wanted to sell your car, would you try to get as much for it as you could or would you price match the cheapest offering on autotrader?

Business is not an extension of the welfare state or a charity.
You're completely twisting the argument. Getting as much as you can for something doesn't mean charging 16x it's actual value.

There's a difference between maximising your profits and ripping people off, and there's a difference between successful marketing and deceiving the public into thinking a product is better than the competition and therefore worth far more, regardless of whether you want to accept it or not.

Although some of the responces here highlight much that's wrong with the capitalist system.
what device have you posted this from?
 

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You're completely twisting the argument. Getting as much as you can for something doesn't mean charging 16x it's actual value.

There's a difference between maximising your profits and ripping people off, and there's a difference between successful marketing and deceiving the public into thinking a product is better than the competition and therefore worth far more, regardless of whether you want to accept it or not.

Although some of the responces here highlight much that's wrong with the capitalist system.
Define "worth".
 

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No I didn't. But I was disagreeing to your argument by you using Apple as an example of over-priced exploitation:

My point, is that the market will dictate a price the product can sell for, and people will choose to buy it or not. Being ripped off is when there is little or no choice, such as the current price of fuel. BTW, Apple is a better product when used in conjunction with other Apple products. But I digress far to far off topic....
How can you possibly know whether you missed the point or not? Only I can know that.

I understand what you are saying but do not agree with it, if something is overpriced then by definition it must be a rip off, regardless of whether some people are willing to pay for it or not. Apple is just an example, I could have used countless others so it's pointless discussing Apple as a single case. That wasn't my point either incidentally, but this forum is clearly the wrong place for this debate.
 

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I'd be interested to know your thoughts on the bottled water industry? Evian Spring Water costs £2.37/litre on Amazon which makes diesel seem like a bargain at £1.95/litre.
You can find examples in just about any industry you care to name, but I'm really talking about like for like products (or in the case of the BL/Lotus part, the exact same product) in this particular instance.

I know lots of people who will happily spend £3 on a pint of beer but wouldn't dream of paying £2 for a litre of fuel because they prefer drinking to driving. That's not the point.

Listen, I don't actually have a problem with it. If people want to pay £1000 for a mobile phone, £5000 for a handbag or £20,000 for a pair of shoes good luck to them. It's their money. Most of us probably would if we had that sort of money to burn. But I still think they're being ripped off, in fact many celebs have often spoken about the things they have blown fortunes on and realised later how ridiculous it was, and accept they were effectively taken advantage of (clue: read "ripped off"); call it what you like, it amounts to the same thing.
 

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I understand what you are saying but do not agree with it, if something is overpriced then by definition it must be a rip off, regardless of whether some people are willing to pay for it or not.
The 'correct' price is the one where demand exactly equals supply. Something might be "overpriced" by your definition, but it's not technically overpriced if the manufacturer can sell 100% of output.

There are endless examples of manufacturers under pricing products leading to a secondary market where the 'correct' price is charged.

 

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You define it. Because it's clear now that whatever I believe, you'll come up with something different.
Me? I haven't said a word.
Just that something's "worth" is an abstract concept and has little to do with its monetary "value" which, as is being argued, will be set by the market.
Hence my question. What's your definition of "worth"? A term you used.
 

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Me? I haven't said a word.
Just that something's "worth" is an abstract concept and has little to do with its monetary "value" which, as is being argued, will be set by the market.
Hence my question. What's your definition of "worth"? A term you used.
But you did say something John, hence the reply from Coolcity...
 
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