[Shaunymc]

HI All,
following a catastrophic engine failure of my 2012 XFS last April 2019, It has been necessary for me to seek remuneration for the cost of a replacement engine through the Small Claims Court. The car had a full service history, had been in my ownership for 9 months(July 2018) and was due an Annual service. No indication of low oil pressure was evident but the car had developed some minor electrical issues. The engine had thrown a con-rod cap through the block and it was diagnosed as a lack of oil to the con-rod bearing. The engine was beyond rebuild and had to be replaced. Discussions with JLR Customer Services were fruitless(as was my letter to JLR CEO Dr Speith!). This forum has highlighted numerous similar failures and so I thought this a good port of call to potentially gain some assistance.

Although the failure occurred last April the Preliminary Hearing will not be until this forthcoming April.
The Preliminary Hearing 9th April which will consider:
1, The need to appoint an Independent Automotive Engineer.
2, further necessary directions to progress the matter to trial.

The recent letter asks me (and the other party) to provide CVs of 3 independent Automotive Engineers one of which the court may propose to instruct.
Are there any Independent Automotive Engineers on the Forum, who are familiar with the XFS (and/or JLR TDV6) modes of engine failure who may be happy to to be considered and help.
I am in Norfolk and the Hearing will be in Peterborough.
Many thanks for reading and or helping out.

I would add that I believe this to be an inherent JLR TDV6 engine issue and it is unfortunate that Consumer Law means that I must seek satisfaction from the Independent Retailer rather than JLR at this time.

 

[Car67]

Sorry to hear your engine has let go.
Can't help with a recommendation of a motor engineer but you might have some success over at Pistonheads if this forum doesn't come through.
Are you sure this claim actually has legs? Annoying though it is, can you easily demonstrate that it is JLR's problem?
What sort of mileage has the engine done?
Is the lack of oil a clear manufacturing fault? eg. is a drilling not made properly or is it just blocked?

Don't want to sound too negative, but I assume there are probably 10's if not 100's of thousands of TDV6 that haven't gone bang (assuming it is basically the same in the LandRover product).

Edit: Ah... I guess this might be to do with the bearing shells rotating. If so, then JLR have apparently recognised this as an issue. In which case, I believe they have been paying for the repairs in some cases.

 

[Lofty]

Proving it is a known fault doesn’t really help you if you are claiming off the seller. I wish you luck but think it will be hard to win a case for a car 7/8 years old that you had owned nine months. You would have had a much better chance if it happened within the first six months.

 

[DesperateDan]

An article I read recently by an automotive engineer suggested that the fundamental problem is dilution of the engine oil which occurs when the engine is switched off while it is doing a DPF regeneration and excess diesel leaks into the sump. This leads to reduced lubrication, the conrod brearing shell moving, blocking the oil feed, quickly followed by engine failure. On some vehicles there is a warning that an oil change is required based on the ecu's data, does the XF do this? A rise in the engine oil level also points to oil dilution. This method of DPF regeneration is a poor solution but one which a number of manufacturers resorted to to meet emission requirements. Good luck with your claim but as Lofty says I think it may be a hard case to win.

 

[Horlicks]

Sounds more like movement of the bearing shell blocking the oil supply.

 

[ninjag]

I thought the facelift had sorted this issue with a small redesign to prevent the rotation and subsequent blockage?

If it's due to oil dilution I'm sure there's an inferred calculation done by the car as I can access it via icarsoft. Will the car display a warning/service required message if the inferred dilution reading reaches a certain level?

 

[idrobbo]

An article I read recently by an automotive engineer suggested that the fundamental problem is dilution of the engine oil ....

Can you provide the OP with the article, or the name of the automotive engineer. May help him, though like others I suspect it will fail.

 

[DesperateDan]

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Home Forums Land Rover Forums Land Rover Discovery
Engine died- crank shaft fault
Thread starterJessie123 Start dateOct 4, 2018
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Jessie123
First Gear
Oct 4, 2018
#1
I own a discovery TD4 HSE. 8 yr, less than 60k on clock. Fully serviced, Landrover approved, MOT pass in March. Returning from Aberdeen engine completely shut down on duel carriageway. No warning lights nothing. Once recovered garage say diagnostic test found that the crank shaft had seized. Now requires a brand new engine! Mechanic says it’s a component fault. Landrover not willing to contribute to fixing this. Will deliver nothing to us for repair. So disappointed as have had Freelanders/discovery’s for over 20 years. Anyone else heard /experience of this problem ??
Colin Swan
Colin Swan
Offroader
Oct 4, 2018
#2
Hi Jessie, have a look on this site "crankshaft fault" the problem is quite common, you need to get in touch directly with Land Rover customer services as you have what appears to be a known fault. Colin
alisterg
alisterg
Trekker
Oct 4, 2018
#3
The following is a service bulletin released to dealers in 2014 by Land Rover:

========================================================================================
Reference SSM71816

Models

Discovery 4 / L319
Discovery 3 / L319
Range Rover / L405
Range Rover Sport / L494
Range Rover Sport / L320

Title Crankshaft/Crankshaft Bearing Concerns - TDv6 Diesel Engine
Category Engine
Last modified 06-May-2014 00:00:00
Symptom 499000 Basic Engine

Content
Issue:
Crankshaft/crankshaft bearing failure - TDv6 Diesel Engine.
Cause:
Low incidence of crankshaft failure are being encountered, caused mainly by incorrect location of the main bearing shells during assembly, or through rotation of the shells during normal use. A new procedure has been implemented to ensure:
- more rapid resolution of customer concerns, and
- greater visibility of failure modes in order to improve repair process and parts delivery.

Action:
For any suspected crankshaft/bearing failure, please contact your local Dealer Technical Support or FRED team for details of the enhanced customer handling procedure.
The list below summarises typical symptoms of crankshaft/bearing failure, but please contact your DTS/FRED team if in any doubt as they will be pleased to offer assistance:
a· Crankshaft is seized, engine cannot be turned either via starter motor or crankshaft pulley bolt.
b· Oil sump or engine cylinder block is holed, with oil leakage and/or metallic debris found on engine under-tray.
c· Engine makes a loud rumbling/knocking sound when running which worsens as the engine is placed under load. The engine oil pressure warning light may flash or be continuously illuminated, especially at low engine speeds.
========================================================================================

So long as your engine is the TDV6 mentioned above, then Land Rover have acknowledged that this is a manufacturing defect, and should have some liability for repair.

Hope this helps.

Al

This isn't the post I saw which I can't relocate but it may be relevant to the subject. On the subject of engine reliability this is one of the reasons I have disabled the stop/start on my car by removing the small battery lead and cable tying back as I don't want a dpf regeneration interupted or the engine switching off as I reach the top of the motorway sliproad with a hot turbo!!

 

[idrobbo]

:gt-happyup:

 

[Shaunymc]

Hi All,

thank you for taking the time to reply and apols for slow response. I was on hols.

Bit more info regarding Oil/ECU indications etc...none! Vehicle had covered 63K miles and had FSH. Electrically, I had called in minor issues whilst under warranty(Sat Nav not initialising, Air Con failing, Start/stop not working) although not repaired. I am aware of the parameters necessary for S/S to operate but mine did not operate even within its parameters. Air Con intermittent - outside its parameters. I only use these examples as they were not corrected under warranty...I had no Engine Management warnings (low oil pressure etc).

As I am sure many of you are aware, the oil level can only be checked electronically on the dash computer (no dipstick on XF for the uninitiated!) and can only be checked when the oil has been warmed; the car is on a level surface; and the vehicle has been at rest for 10 mins plus. Had I had an oil warning, I would have followed this procedure (convoluted as it is) to confirm oil level.

I appreciate that failings can occur and 'caveat emptor' (buyer beware) could be applied, however and spaeking as an engineer, there are too many coincidences occurring with this model of engine (TDV6). Although, I have shelved out some cash and keen to see its return, its not the only motivator. As an Aircraft Engineer, I focus on safety. I had the presence of mind to recover this failure whilst on a busy road and it necessitated getting across lanes to a safe spot on the roadside. Had this occurred with, for example, my partner or daughter driving, I dread to think of the potential consequences.
Had I not read of numerous similar examples on this forum and others, and the statement from the Rebuild Engineers who have a successful business replacing these engines, then I would not be raising the issue.

Fundamentally, I was searching for a Automotive engineer with sufficient credibility (e.g. Member of an Institute of Automotive Engineers etc) Who could explain why this failure would occur. I have pictures of scored bearing shells etc.
Once again, thank you all for your help and comments to date.

 

[ninjag]

If it helps, if you pop the bonnet you don't have to wait for things to settle and the oil level will read immediately. I'm guessing it's for assisting when doing an oil change and perhaps there's a good reason for the normal way having to wait for things to settle. Super accuracy perhaps?

 

[Lofty]

Porsche had some major engine problems with the early Cayman/Boxster and 996. They knew of the problems but offered no assistance to buyers, in fact they doubled the cost of the replacement engine blocks that were being bought in bulk by repairers. There was a class action in the US but everywhere else just had to suck it up. I’ve no doubt that there is a problem with some JLR engines but taking the dealer to court seems doomed to failure, if you were the first owner from new and were taking JLR to task then you may have had a chance. Having said that I still wish you luck.

 

[Shaunymc]

Thank you Lofty,

I have discussed issue with JLR, However, having taken consumer rights guidance, to recoup my outstanding costs, and for the issue to be within 12 months of purchase, it is the dealer(or the person from whom the product was purchased) that I must seek costs.

It is unfortunate that the dealer must take this on the chin (or take an action with JLR?) rather than the manufacturer. As a small business owner myself, I can understand how the dealer must feel in this instance, but as I said, I need to follow the direct route to seeking costs.

This may be the first step, and court guidance may be to take this to the next level. We wait to see.

Regards

 

[Lofty]

Yes a realise your contract is with the dealer and that’s who you take to court, but as it’s after 6 months it’s hard to prove who’s at fault once your 6 year consumer protection has ended. Keep us informed though, it’s good to know who these cases pan out.

 

[Carpo]

This has been a major topic with the various Landrovers/Range rovers which use the same engine in South Africa. There are some persistent guys there who have come right. You may find some common ground here which could assist you. Don't let the b......s grind you down. Good luck and I'm sure if you persevere you will win.
https://www.4x4community.co.za/foru...-Links-to-Discovery-TDv6-SDv6-Failure-Reports

 

[Osman]

HI All,
following a catastrophic engine failure of my 2012 XFS last April 2019, It has been necessary for me to seek remuneration for the cost of a replacement engine through the Small Claims Court. The car had a full service history, had been in my ownership for 9 months(July 2018) and was due an Annual service. No indication of low oil pressure was evident but the car had developed some minor electrical issues. The engine had thrown a con-rod cap through the block and it was diagnosed as a lack of oil to the con-rod bearing. The engine was beyond rebuild and had to be replaced. Discussions with JLR Customer Services were fruitless(as was my letter to JLR CEO Dr Speith!). This forum has highlighted numerous similar failures and so I thought this a good port of call to potentially gain some assistance.

Although the failure occurred last April the Preliminary Hearing will not be until this forthcoming April.
The Preliminary Hearing 9th April which will consider:
1, The need to appoint an Independent Automotive Engineer.
2, further necessary directions to progress the matter to trial.

The recent letter asks me (and the other party) to provide CVs of 3 independent Automotive Engineers one of which the court may propose to instruct.
Are there any Independent Automotive Engineers on the Forum, who are familiar with the XFS (and/or JLR TDV6) modes of engine failure who may be happy to to be considered and help.
I am in Norfolk and the Hearing will be in Peterborough.
Many thanks for reading and or helping out.

I would add that I believe this to be an inherent JLR TDV6 engine issue and it is unfortunate that Consumer Law means that I must seek satisfaction from the Independent Retailer rather than JLR at this time.

 

[Osman]

Hi, just wondering if you managed to get anywhere with your court case?

i have a range rover L405 and have been rejected goodwill from landrover for catastrophic engine failure “crankshaft issue” so looking to take them to court, but thought I would ask what your results where prior to doing so.

any info would be greatly appreciated.

thanks

osman