Jaguar Forum banner
201 - 220 of 247 Posts

·
Registered
Joined
·
205 Posts
Discussion Starter · #202 ·
Thanks MoJo.
I suspect the LIN contact at the alternator. I was just on my way to have a crocodil clip put on the LIN contact when it started raining. So I will have to repeat it tomorrow. I don't want to believe its something different :) .
Luckily the fault code changed from P065C-01 (old generator) to P0A1A-87 (new generator). I really hope it is only a contact issue. But hey, next time I will be faster in getting this cute little thing out :)

Dirk
 
  • Like
Reactions: PeteA

·
Registered
Joined
·
367 Posts
Can your scope decode LIN? ( if so it might be worth a look to see if there any response frames from the alternator. )
My thinking is if there are only request frames, then GWM is sending "calibration" to the alternator but the alternator isn't responding to confirm it's working, in which case it would seem highly likely to be an alternator problem.
The reverse isn't necessarily true unfortunately, as the master ( GWM ) can also fill in the response ( don't know if the GWM does that though. ) See https://www.ti.com/lit/an/slla383/slla383.pdf

Don't forget MoJo88 has already suggested your GWM is on it's way out and you should replace it though.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
205 Posts
Discussion Starter · #204 ·
Can your scope decode LIN? ( if so it might be worth a look to see if there any response frames from the alternator. )
My thinking is if there are only request frames, then GWM is sending "calibration" to the alternator but the alternator isn't responding to confirm it's working, in which case it would seem highly likely to be an alternator problem.
The reverse isn't necessarily true unfortunately, as the master ( GWM ) can also fill in the response ( don't know if the GWM does that though. ) See https://www.ti.com/lit/an/slla383/slla383.pdf

Don't forget MoJo88 has already suggested your GWM is on it's way out and you should replace it though.
Thanks Phil. Yes, I kept that in mind with my GWM. Therefore I was happy to see, that it was still alive yesterday :) .
I only have this good but simple scope. I can just watch. The LIN signal ist only the request from the GWM to the generator. I took it directly at the connector of the generator
while it was disconnected and the engine was running.

Maybe I could take the signal from a connector next to the GWM. I will try to find the right pin at the connectors :) .
First I will take the recommendations from MoJo above and try to have a safe contact to the LIN contact of the generator. Maybe the contact is too short or the housing is not in specification. It is really not easy to put something like a crocodile clip on it, because there is nearly no space for your hand to operate.

Hopefully this afternoon. If it's not raining....

Dirk
 

·
Registered
MY 2012 XF S Portfolio Ultimate Black
Joined
·
2,152 Posts
Thanks Phil. Yes, I kept that in mind with my GWM. Therefore I was happy to see, that it was still alive yesterday :) .
I only have this good but simple scope. I can just watch. The LIN signal ist only the request from the GWM to the generator. I took it directly at the connector of the generator
while it was disconnected and the engine was running.

Maybe I could take the signal from a connector next to the GWM. I will try to find the right pin at the connectors :) .
First I will take the recommendations from MoJo above and try to have a safe contact to the LIN contact of the generator. Maybe the contact is too short or the housing is not in specification. It is really not easy to put something like a crocodile clip on it, because there is nearly no space for your hand to operate.

Hopefully this afternoon. If it's not raining....

Dirk
Have you seen this:

see the part about alternator connector at around 11:00.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
205 Posts
Discussion Starter · #206 · (Edited)
Have you seen this:

see the part about alternator connector at around 11:00.
Thank you hamed! I havn't seen the video before. What he mentioned about the connector is really what I have in mind. Because I don't here a click when I push it in. But it can be pushed in as deep as into the old generator. So it might not be the root cause, but I am going to check it. That's why I first checked if there is a communication at all on the LIN Bus. Ok, I can't see if this the generator response or one of the other components on the LIN bus A. I think there should be more the one thing on this bus A.

Dirk
 

·
Registered
MY 2012 XF S Portfolio Ultimate Black
Joined
·
2,152 Posts
Thank you hamed! I havn't seen the video before. What he mentioned about the connector is really what I have in mind. Because I don't here a click when I push it in. But it can be pushed in as deep as into the old generator. So it might not be the root cause, but I am going to check it. That's why I first checked if there is a communication at all on the LIN Bus. Ok, I can't see if this the generator response or one of the other components on the LIN bus A. I think there should be more the one thing on this bus A.

Dirk
LIN bus is bidirectional. If you have access to the plug, could you use a crocodile connector and temporarily make the connection? Alternatively, is the electronics on the old alternator transferable to the new one?
An last question, are you sure it’s LIN? Being one wire, it feels like it’s just a tachometer and sends the alternator speed. I haven’t checked the WM.
 

·
Registered
🏴󠁧󠁢󠁳󠁣󠁴󠁿X260 R-Sport in Aurora Red
Joined
·
13,039 Posts
LIN bus is bidirectional. If you have access to the plug, could you use a crocodile connector and temporarily make the connection? Alternatively, is the electronics on the old alternator transferable to the new one?
An last question, are you sure it’s LIN? Being one wire, it feels like it’s just a tachometer and sends the alternator speed. I haven’t checked the WM.
Lin is only one wire mate, think it’s a bosch invention, basically it’s just a serial comms wire (With reference to chassis)
 

·
Registered
MY 2012 XF S Portfolio Ultimate Black
Joined
·
2,152 Posts
Lin is only one wire mate, think it’s a bosch invention, basically it’s just a serial comms wire (With reference to chassis)
Yes Gav, I use LIN at work. I meant there is no power going to it. Probably it’s fed from the alternator directly.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
205 Posts
Discussion Starter · #210 ·
You are right. It's LIN. I just had the first test run with a similar connection like Hamed wrote. I couldn't get this crocodile clip on the contact. It's just too less space there for my fingers. During the first run fault changed from permanent to intermittent. Good news :).
Last test run.....I have to wait for my daughter....will be with measurement of the voltage at the batteries. I can't measure the output of the generator....I use both hands for the connection of the LIN.

Dirk
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
205 Posts
Discussion Starter · #212 ·
Bang, bang..... Fxxxx connector!! :mad: It is not solved but the root cause is found!! No "Battery not charging" after 2 minutes test run. Voltage at the batteries 14.4 V !!

Thank you @hamedhbb for the video. That really pushed me to find a suitable adapter to "bridge" the LIN bus signal. Finally I took a M8 screw :) . I will place a picture soon of my high sophisticated adapter. I believe Hamed would have developed a much better adapter :)

Now it is "just" left to find a solution for this connector issue with or without the company I bought it from :) .
I would prefer a solution without changing the generator again :)
With the guide from @The vast minority it is practicable, but it is still much work :)

I am glad MoJo fixed my control modules over the internet and I am glad I finally found the root cause for the new non charging fault...now I will go for several glass of wine :)
Thank you for your help and patience !

Dirk
 

·
Registered
🏴󠁧󠁢󠁳󠁣󠁴󠁿X260 R-Sport in Aurora Red
Joined
·
13,039 Posts
Excellent Dirk, well pleased for you.
So a pattern part doesn’t mate with the lin bus connector ! Sounds like a reason to get some sort of compensation after the time you’ve spent investigating it?
 
  • Like
Reactions: PeteA

·
Registered
Joined
·
205 Posts
Discussion Starter · #214 · (Edited)
Excellent Dirk, well pleased for you.
So a pattern part doesn’t mate with the lin bus connector ! Sounds like a reason to get some sort of compensation after the time you’ve spent investigating it?
That would be great, Gav!
I will a have nice phone call on Monday. Maybe they could provide a suitable plug for their generator :)

Dirk
 
  • Like
Reactions: Gav

·
Registered
MY 2012 XF S Portfolio Ultimate Black
Joined
·
2,152 Posts
Bang, bang..... Fxxxx connector!! :mad: It is not solved but the root cause is found!! No "Battery not charging" after 2 minutes test run. Voltage at the batteries 14.4 V !!

Thank you @hamedhbb for the video. That really pushed me to find a suitable adapter to "bridge" the LIN bus signal. Finally I took a M8 screw :) . I will place a picture soon of my high sophisticated adapter. I believe Hamed would have developed a much better adapter :)

Now it is "just" left to find a solution for this connector issue with or without the company I bought it from :) .
I would prefer a solution without changing the generator again :)
With the guide from @The vast minority it is practicable, but it is still much work :)

I am glad MoJo fixed my control modules over the internet and I am glad I finally found the root cause for the new non charging fault...now I will go for several glass of wine :)
Thank you for your help and patience !

Dirk
I am glad it’s all sorted. Nothing on these cars is simple. Even the most straightforward jobs!

it needs some skills to make a connector that goes all the way in but won’t make any connection at all 🤪

enjoy the weekend Dirk 🍻. The cat would be back on the road for the next week.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
367 Posts
Being one wire, it feels like it’s just a tachometer and sends the alternator speed.
I remember reading that the GWM sends a lin message to request a specific output voltage from the alternator. Presumably then the alternator sends a lin response to indicate it's working ok. ( Looks like the GWM is the lin master given that Dirk could see the lin traffic without the alternator connected, and there are no other devices on the bus - well unless the GWM wires it together internally with the lin bus for the bms, but as far as I understand they are separate buses )
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
367 Posts
Bang, bang..... Fxxxx connector!! :mad: It is not solved but the root cause is found!! No "Battery not charging" after 2 minutes test run. Voltage at the batteries 14.4 V !!

Thank you @hamedhbb for the video. That really pushed me to find a suitable adapter to "bridge" the LIN bus signal. Finally I took a M8 screw :) . I will place a picture soon of my high sophisticated adapter. I believe Hamed would have developed a much better adapter :)

Now it is "just" left to find a solution for this connector issue with or without the company I bought it from :) .
I would prefer a solution without changing the generator again :)
With the guide from @The vast minority it is practicable, but it is still much work :)

I am glad MoJo fixed my control modules over the internet and I am glad I finally found the root cause for the new non charging fault...now I will go for several glass of wine :)
Thank you for your help and patience !

Dirk
I remember you said it doesn't click in, is there perhaps a rubber seal in the car connector that has been dislodged preventing it from pushing fully in?
Otherwise you could maybe sand the connector on the alternator down a bit.

Some interesting reading about a regulator for lin controlled alternators, quite possibly the one they are using.
 

·
Registered
MY 2012 XF S Portfolio Ultimate Black
Joined
·
2,152 Posts
I remember reading that the GWM sends a lin message to request a specific output voltage from the alternator. Presumably then the alternator sends a lin response to indicate it's working ok. ( Looks like the GWM is the lin master given that Dirk could see the lin traffic without the alternator connected, and there are no other devices on the bus - well unless the GWM wires it together internally with the lin bus for the bms, but as far as I understand they are separate buses )
LIN is bidirectional. Perhaps the signal Dirk saw was the request message towards the alternator.
 
201 - 220 of 247 Posts
Top