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Hi all,

So after having my XFR air con regassed (it had none in it at all, all was lost sometime in the engine rebuild) I've ended up with a hot cabin again within 72 hours!

I had it regassed on Sunday, due to limited options I took it to Halfords. They said at the time it passed a pressure test, but I can only assume it has since leaked out. Either that or something has tripped out the compressor.

Shamefully I confess to being lazy here and haven't looked into it at all yet. Are there any known trouble spots in the air con system on these cars?
 

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You need to know if it still has gas in it, so you know if you have a leak or not! You will need to get it tested again. If it is full then I have heard the valve in the compressos can stick (DSV). Worth a forum search!
 

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Yes. The DPS (direct pressure sensing) valve.
Or corroded condenser. The "pressure" test is a vacuum test to see if there are any leaks and it may well have passed. But (as explained to me recently) if the condenser is corroded it may well be OK for that but once it's fully gassed and subject to normal pressures it may well give way.
I think Halfords have a money-back guarantee. Go and get it back on their machine. If the condenser has gone, it will show up this time.
 

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I know how you feel, Just happened to me. Went out for a run Tuesday air con blowing warm. Had it re-gassed a month ago now back where I was . I suspected I may have a leek as air con normally does not suddenly go unless it is electrical. Did a diagnostic this morning pressure at atmosphere, 1 bar. Shit I thought. So the car is now up on my two post with all under side panels removed, half of the plumbing to turbos and air system off to see what a pain it is going to be to get off the pipes which have corroded under the foam rubber spacer which is a known issue. I need another drink.
 

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Hamed how much did you remove to get that pipe off of the top of the pump.
 

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Hamed how much did you remove to get that pipe off of the top of the pump.
It depends on the compressor type. Apparently there are 2 types. Mine has pipe coming out from top left while dps is left bottom side. You need to remove , air filter box and air ducts to the left turbo to gain access to that connection from under the car.
I rather doing a compression fitting coupler if there is a leak.
 

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It depends on the compressor type. Apparently there are 2 types. Mine has pipe coming out from top left while dps is left bottom side. You need to remove , air filter box and air ducts to the left turbo to gain access to that connection from under the car.
I rather doing a compression fitting coupler if there is a leak.
I have been thinking the same much easier. I will have a more careful look today and try to make a decision on that.
Thanks Hamed.
 

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I have been thinking the same much easier. I will have a more careful look today and try to make a decision on that.
Thanks Hamed.
Thanks. Please let me know. I haven’t tackled it yet as well but whatever it is, is under that foam. Seals, fittings and condenser are all fine according to UV light.
A side note is that it seems UV light traces engine coolant as well. It turns amber while refrigerant turns green. must be some dye in the coolant.
 

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Thanks. Please let me know. I haven’t tacked it yet as well but whatever is under than foam. Seals, fittings and condenser are all fine according to UV light.
A side note is that it seems UV light traces engine coolant as well. It turns amber while refrigerant turns green. must be some dye in the coolant.
I just replied to Gav saying I will put a few pics on tomorrow. I have done what you said, cut the low pressure pipe where I can see the problem, the high looks ok. But not yet convinced. I have done a bit of ally welding before on my rolls royce ( exhaust cover) but not good at it. I am looking at joining copper pipe to the ally, it is possible with the right flux. If it was copper in the first place it would last forever. Refrigeration people often join copper to ally. If all else fails I will have to get the bloody thing off all the way to the compressor (what a pain). Almost enjoyed it up to the removing all of the turbo pipes then thought this is stupid.Even with the 2 post acting like a yoyo it is still a pain, and it will happen again. Why didn't they paint the bloody pipes in the first place, I will paint them with an etching primer then with red oxide, not rocket science. I have seen people moan on other forums about people doing what I may do, thinking about the environment total bullshit, I wonder how many people with this problem had a re gas first and let that in the environment may be everybody. It is easily avoidable.
 

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Oh forgot to say my condenser is fine, it is really easy to remove just two screws, I took it off to clean it up. Seal all the ends as you take them off. Once the bottom pipe (the top one on the condenser is cut it is easy to remove the fitting. Be careful the condenser doesn't fall off when you undo the two screws as it slots under two flaps at the top.
 

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Thanks for the comments Gents. I've got a UV torch arriving from Amazon tomorrow. I'd rather have a careful look at it myself before a Halfords tech gets his hands on it.
 

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Oh forgot to say my condenser is fine, it is really easy to remove just two screws, I took it off to clean it up. Seal all the ends as you take them off. Once the bottom pipe (the top one on the condenser is cut it is easy to remove the fitting. Be careful the condenser doesn't fall off when you undo the two screws as it slots under two flaps at the top.
It’s very helpful thanks. So you disconnected two pipes from the fitting and then took the condenser off right?

would you let me know the pipe diameter?wanted to see I can find a brass or copper fitting. Mainly because I have used top up gasses before and they are isobutane which is flammable. Prefer not to risk it with torch.

Also would you confirm if it is corrosion that causes the leak? I thought it might be pipe rubbing against something leading to a leakage. It’s hard to digest an aluminium pipe failing this fast due to corrosion.
I haven’t lifted that foam yet. Would you confirm we are talking about the circled area below?
182374


p.s. since it is on low pressure side, copper is even better than aluminium in terms of heat transfer.
 

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It’s very helpful thanks. So you disconnected two pipes from the fitting and then took the condenser off right?

would you let me know the pipe diameter?wanted to see I can find a brass or copper fitting. Mainly because I have used top up gasses before and they are isobutane which is flammable. Prefer not to risk it with torch.

Also would you confirm if it is corrosion that causes the leak? I thought it might be pipe rubbing against something leading to a leakage. It’s hard to digest an aluminium pipe failing this fast due to corrosion.
I haven’t lifted that foam yet. Would you confirm we are talking about the circled area below?
View attachment 182374

p.s. since it is on low pressure side, copper is even better than aluminium in terms of heat transfer.
Yep Hamed right on. The pipes where the problem is are 0.5 inches Dia. The hp pipe reduces to 10mm or there about.
I am not sure that the foam fingers that touch the pipe are the only problem, I can see small corrosion points all around where you circled. It is not a rubbing issue. It reminds me of aluminium which as had caustic soda around it, ie. small holes form. I will take some photo's tomorrow and post them. The gas used freeon I think it is, is very searching, I read recently that a compression fitting is not up to it. I may have a go at soldering/brazing it.I am still thinking of the best method. Anything though is better than what it was, I think aluminium is the wrong material where road salt sprays on it. It is strange it is only at the lower end of the system. I also noticed that at the bottom of the condenser the thin ally cooling core was corroded in places. To be continued.
 

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Yep Hamed right on. The pipes where the problem is are 0.5 inches Dia. The hp pipe reduces to 10mm or there about.
I am not sure that the foam fingers that touch the pipe are the only problem, I can see small corrosion points all around where you circled. It is not a rubbing issue. It reminds me of aluminium which as had caustic soda around it, ie. small holes form. I will take some photo's tomorrow and post them. The gas used freeon I think it is, is very searching, I read recently that a compression fitting is not up to it. I may have a go at soldering/brazing it.I am still thinking of the best method. Anything though is better than what it was, I think aluminium is the wrong material where road salt sprays on it. It is strange it is only at the lower end of the system. I also noticed that at the bottom of the condenser the thin ally cooling core was corroded in places. To be continued.
These information would save me a lot of hassle when I get to it. Yes I have seen caustic soda eating aluminium but how can it get there?
Re compression fitting, there are products available online NA branded ATP. The LP pipe shows a pressure of about 1.5-2 bar while in operation and 5.5-6bar when stationary. HP runs at maximum of 16bar while working and 5.5-6 while stationary. So a brass compression fitting of 1/2” should stand it.

would like to see how you are going to use the torch safely in that area and how far back the heat goes. I.e. up stream seals wouldn’t get damaged.
 

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These information would save me a lot of hassle when I get to it. Yes I have seen caustic soda eating aluminium but how can it get there?
Re compression fitting, there are products available online NA branded ATP. The LP pipe shows a pressure of about 1.5-2 bar while in operation and 5.5-6bar when stationary. HP runs at maximum of 16bar while working and 5.5-6 while stationary. So a brass compression fitting of 1/2” should stand it.

would like to see how you are going to use the torch safely in that area and how far back the heat goes. I.e. up stream seals wouldn’t get damaged.
I have been looking at suppliers of ally tube, I can get 2mts for about £3. I might turn up a tube to join the pipes as I do with exhaust systems. But may be the pipe end left on the car is best by compression. I often use a wet rag around where I don't want to much heat. Ally has to be welded fast with a hot flame before it oxidizes. I will sleep on it and see about it tomorrow
 

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I have seen alumium tubes in B&Q. Similar price but they are 1m. I am wondering if you could go slightly bigger, cut the pipe put the sleeve on then slide it back over the cut and weld the sleeve to the pipe.
 

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Well got the pics, these tubes are very poor. Corrosion on a large area, not just the foam fingers. I have decided to fix the thing myself as they did it wrong. Every jag 250 will at some point have this issue, if you live in a place with salt on the roads. I am now going to weld the tubes as the stupid cost of replacement is not acceptable. It will happen again even if you replace the pipes, if you keep the car long enough. These cars are 4 year cars. If you want to do the service yourself you need to put air con into the equation, and it is a real pain in the arse. In other words if it ain't gone it will.
The pics are the pipe corrosion , all screws after a night in the white vinegar and sprayed,panels after cleaning.
 

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Yeh they are a godsend. I intend cutting out problem areas and replacing with new pipe, maybe using your idea of oversize pipe as connection. As you can see Hamed the corrosion is not localized, but on the whole of the pipe, not gone through yet but would given time. I will only replace where I have to, I intend to treat the affected areas to stop the rot with what, I don't yet know. This is a real pain in the arse. I have looked for new pipes but no one has them, second hand is a joke 1 year or may be 2. I have been filling the bad bits to remove the corrosion down to good metal, I will treat this with something when I have researched it. I will keep you posted. My condenser looks ok but I would not trust it long term. It makes me think that renewing the whole air cond system at 100k is a planed maintenance move.How sad is that. But where do you stop. I feel I will be bodging the thing doing what I am going to do but when you look at other issues you have been into to, looks like that is the only way, or buy new and shift it when out of guarantee. We are lucky we can fix it, but how about people who can't, and get screwed by the steelers.
Fred
 
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