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Thread: BHP and Torque

  1. #41
    Rampant Member Barney100golf's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ancill View Post
    Indeed, but there is no torque on a bike lol, this conversation is more about power delivery, not how far you plant your foot
    Hmm I think you are wrong there?? as far as bikes are concerned
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  3. #42
    Executive Member Ancill's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by bensales View Post
    Not strictly true. My GSXR had 103Nm torque and 160bhp at the rear wheel, and weighed 213kg wet. So that's a power to weight ratio of 0.75 and a torque to weight ratio of 0.48.

    An XFR has 680Nm torque and 500bhp, and weighs 2370kg. So that's a power to weight ratio of 0.21 and a torque to weight ratio of 0.28. Positively weedy in comparison :-)
    But all in the upper rev ranges, I too am a biker, the only one that had some decent torque was my Aprilia RSV4 Factory

    A bike makes its power with high revs

    2370kg for an XFR? More like a kerb weight of 1890kg
    Last edited by Ancill; 5th January 2017 at 11:30.

  4. #43
    Executive Member Ancill's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Barney100golf View Post
    Hmm I think you are wrong there?? as far as bikes are concerned
    Wrong on which bit? I've had plenty of fast bikes my S1000RR had 200bhp

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  6. #44
    Very Active Member MickAdams's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ancill View Post
    2370kg for an XFR? More like a kerb weight of 1890kg
    625Nm and 503bhp too

  7. #45
    Executive Member Ancill's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by MickAdams View Post
    625Nm and 503bhp too
    A bit short on the torque but a decent bhp

  8. #46
    Active Member Richf's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ancill View Post
    Indeed, but there is no torque on a bike lol, this conversation is more about power delivery, not how far you plant your foot
    How far you plant your foot has little to do with power delivery also , the days of a physical connection between the pedal and the engine are largely gone, you put your foot down, the signal is sent to the ECU and that decides how the throttle is applied.

    On my last car the throttle butterflies were always fully open with the intake cam controlling engine speed via the ecu , that's why its so important to get the throttle tables correctly set on the map and why so many mappers ramp up the throttle response to make the car feel faster at the expense of flexibility

  9. #47
    Quote Originally Posted by Ancill View Post
    I used to have to use the 'loud pedal' with caution when overtaking on a cold damp day in my remapped XFR, when going over the camber, your brain wants you to floor the throttle to get past quickly, but in reality, you have to feather the accelerator

    Amen to that, first car I've had where overtaking has to be less is more!

    Wouldn't change it for the world though, AWD would ruin it.
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  10. #48
    Very Active Member etypephil's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by philmots View Post
    Amen to that, first car I've had where overtaking has to be less is more!

    Wouldn't change it for the world though, AWD would ruin it.
    Probably the best all rounder ever.
    Supercar performance, handling and brakes, ride quality much better than anything even vaguely comparable, carries five people, rear seats fold so that it can perform small van duties, but the most remarkable thing is its low running costs; it never goes wrong, and although not purchased with fuel economy in mind, checking consumption using brim to brim refuelling over ten thousand miles, returns 29.9 mpg in a real world of mixed local, medium, and long distance trips, using every BHP and Nm available when appropriate.
    Not sure I agree about the AWD though.
    Why no full fat X260?
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  11. #49
    Senior member PsiFox's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by wilf View Post
    I used to be able to drive my 490BHP/500lbs ft, sub-1000Kg Cobra in the wet..........................that needed a very delicate right foot.

    And it didn't have a single electronic "driver aid".................
    Sneezing on a roundabout might have been interesting?
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  12. #50
    Super Moderator wilf's Avatar
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    Just lifting off on a really greasy cold roundabout was interesting!

    I remember that at around 15mph locally on one such roundabout, the over-run torque just locked up the rears. Fun days!
    XF replaced by a big tractor due to intransigence of Jaguar marketing. A V6 engine and a Portfolio interior are now mutually exclusive if you live in the UK, but not elsewhere.

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  13. #51
    Executive Member Ancill's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by philmots View Post
    Amen to that, first car I've had where overtaking has to be less is more!

    Wouldn't change it for the world though, AWD would ruin it.
    The downside to the rear wheel drive XFR is the active diff and auto box, when it goes, it can get out of control very quickly

  14. #52
    Executive Member Ancill's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by etypephil View Post
    Probably the best all rounder ever.
    Supercar performance, handling and brakes, ride quality much better than anything even vaguely comparable, carries five people, rear seats fold so that it can perform small van duties, but the most remarkable thing is its low running costs; it never goes wrong, and although not purchased with fuel economy in mind, checking consumption using brim to brim refuelling over ten thousand miles, returns 29.9 mpg in a real world of mixed local, medium, and long distance trips, using every BHP and Nm available when appropriate.
    Not sure I agree about the AWD though.
    Why no full fat X260?
    Hopefully we should see something interesting in the X260 this year

  15. #53
    Active Member Madart's Avatar
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    The trouble with the diesel is the turbo lag. On a tight wet bend it doesn't matter how careful you are with throttle application, the reaction is inconsistent. Sometimes you can ease the throttle and it responds. Sometimes you ease on the throttle and nothing- then it comes on suddenly and that confuses the gearbox as well causing it to change down and out comes the back end.
    The feeling of not being in control of that can be unnerving.

  16. #54
    Rampant Member OzXFR's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Madart View Post
    The trouble with the diesel is the turbo lag. On a tight wet bend it doesn't matter how careful you are with throttle application, the reaction is inconsistent. Sometimes you can ease the throttle and it responds. Sometimes you ease on the throttle and nothing- then it comes on suddenly and that confuses the gearbox as well causing it to change down and out comes the back end.
    The feeling of not being in control of that can be unnerving.
    Agreed!
    Also, from memory, sometimes it works the other way around on the 3.0D.
    You put your foot down and nothing much happens, then the gearbox wakes up and kicks down two gears, suddenly you are doing 2,700+ RPM and now the second turbo kicks in with a vengeance.
    2014 F-Type S coupe in Lunar Grey with Red Zone interior and almost all the options. For sale - 2010 Jaguar XFR, Kyanite/Ivory/Black Pack/Dark Oak, Coventry Whitley wheels, H-pipe, XFR-S tune.

  17. #55
    Active Member Madart's Avatar
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    Haha! Yes. You remember correctly. Unwanted excitement.
    On another matter my wallet just got caned by the dentist so the exhaust may have to wait a few weeks. Still very interested though.

  18. #56
    Senior member BigE's Avatar
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    Surly the key phrase is power to weight ration.
    You can have 1000bhp power with comparable torque but in a 10 ton tank isn't very exciting. Put 500bhp and 600nm torque in a 750kg Caterham 7 and you'll be doing doughnuts at every turn.

    Being able to transfer the power from the engine to road speed in a suitable manner is key. Take the Renault F1 engine in 2015, that was the main complaint (apart from lacking power compared to rivals) they said it was almost off/on power delivery where others were able to feed it in better.
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  19. #57
    Executive Member Ancill's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by BigE View Post
    Surly the key phrase is power to weight ration.
    You can have 1000bhp power with comparable torque but in a 10 ton tank isn't very exciting. Put 500bhp and 600nm torque in a 750kg Caterham 7 and you'll be doing doughnuts at every turn.

    Being able to transfer the power from the engine to road speed in a suitable manner is key. Take the Renault F1 engine in 2015, that was the main complaint (apart from lacking power compared to rivals) they said it was almost off/on power delivery where others were able to feed it in better.
    Exactly this and what the op was raising, the 'power delivery'

  20. #58
    Super Moderator wilf's Avatar
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    Funny. There was a software update Q634 (or was it 643?) for Rangie Sports recently that has made a marked improvement to diesel engine response and driveability. Step-off from standstill is better, the issue of "all or nothing " is reduced (but still there to a lesser degree) and to my mind the engine/gearbox combination is just "smoother".
    XF replaced by a big tractor due to intransigence of Jaguar marketing. A V6 engine and a Portfolio interior are now mutually exclusive if you live in the UK, but not elsewhere.

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  21. #59
    Executive Member Ancill's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by wilf View Post
    Funny. There was a software update Q634 (or was it 643?) for Rangie Sports recently that has made a marked improvement to diesel engine response and driveability. Step-off from standstill is better, the issue of "all or nothing " is reduced (but still there to a lesser degree) and to my mind the engine/gearbox combination is just "smoother".
    Probably an update to the gearbox software

  22. #60
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    My point started not about HP and NM. It was also about how much does it weights and how mass is distributed and also RWD vs FWD vs AWD in the same equation. I had a BMW 318 before and apart of it not being as powerful enough, it felt much lighter than the XF. My fathers BMW 520 is also lighter.
    The grip to the road in different conditions and moments could make a difference when power could be to much. This I was asking for.

    Madart , I guess you're so so right about the turbolag and also about the auto gearbox when sometimes make you unwanted surprises. Eventually keeping in S will make it be more predictive (and I use it this way on mountain curvy roads even on downhill because is more predictive like a manual).

    By they way, for some days, more than 20-30HP are useless here (see the picture).IMG_0658.jpg


 

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